Monza LMS cancelled due to "greenies"

[Adam43]

Better to race at the best circuits. Whatever they may be. If F1 is there, so what, why should Sportscar care? I feel this is even more the case with the LMS. I feel it is a collection of great races rather than a championship and great races need to be on great circuits. Now what we feel is a great circuit is another thread, but losing Monza is a blow IMHO.

[GT-Eins]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

According to DailySportsCar it appears Estoril is in the running as a replacement venue in addition to Brno.

...

Regarding the scheduled Date I would be in favour of Estoril, as you may have some low temperatures in Brno at mid October
Although Brno would be much better to reach for me...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Better to race at the best circuits. Whatever they may be. If F1 is there, so what, why should Sportscar care? I feel this is even more the case with the LMS. I feel it is a collection of great races rather than a championship and great races need to be on great circuits. Now what we feel is a great circuit is another thread, but losing Monza is a blow IMHO.

Silverstone treated the LMS shabbily, it was unquestionably the worst meeting I have ever been to organisation wise.

The impression I had was a lack of interest in the series and it's spectators.

Donington's facilities are now a match (almost) for Silverstone, plus the LMS will be one of their headline events this year.

Donington 89/90 were two of the best ever Group C entries/races.

Has Monza been a 'great race' in the last 25 years?

Even in the Group C days one man and his dog turned up.

On the other hand Brno attracted 100K+ for Group C and European touring car races.

The calender is one area the ACO still has much work to do.

Retain Spa, Donington, Nurburgring.

The rest are up for grabs.

IMO, we need a race in southern Europe and one located in or near Holland.

The ACO's all for reaching out to new markets, well the Dutch have embraced sportscar racing in a big way, so stage a race there.

[Adam43]

There are bullet points you know

I don't dispute all that, my point was just that F1 is irrelevant.

I do, however, dispute Monza not having being a great race in the last 25 years. The main effect on this has been the up and down nature of Sportscar racing. However you go back to 1981 and the Monza race was significant in those Group C days. And Herbert grabbing the lead a couple of years back was good. Sportscar look great at Monza, through the trees, making that noise (!). It is a great race.

I'd swap Nurburgring for Brno! Nurburgring circuit leaves me cold.

[The Badger]

I would have thought that Bernie's circus is more noisey than Lms ? Or is it the money that is talking ?

Ferrari didnt start making F1 cars , they started making sportscars first . I wonder what Ol'Enzo would have said if he was still alive !!!!

[ss_collins]

If Brno I will definatley go

[ss_collins]

The ACO's all for reaching out to new markets, well the Dutch have embraced sportscar racing in a big way, so stage a race there.


Or Brands Hatch over two days - fairly close to holland (2.5 hours?)

[Svierge]

I'm surprised that these complaining nimbys haven't been silenced in some appropriate way. If they manage to get the circuit closed I'm sure their lives will be made so uncomfortable that they'll have to leave the area anyway...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I would have thought that Bernie's circus is more noisey than Lms ? Or is it the money that is talking ?

Well the choise is between people coming or people not, as mentioned above. Frankly they'd be stupid to cancel the Sportscar race for F1 whatever we may think.

Originally Posted by The Badger

Ferrari didnt start making F1 cars , they started making sportscars first . I wonder what Ol'Enzo would have said if he was still alive !!!!

Ferrari started racing single seaters first (Alfas). He priniciply made racing cars, whatever that may be. However overall he wanted to win GP. The Sportscar team often played second fiddle to the GP team in terms of drivers. Do well in Sporstcar and you might get a GP drive. Although it was not as clear cut as it was now and frequently the GP season would only get going after Le Mans. I suspect Enzo would chose the GP. Or at least the race he could win! He may be annoyed at the overall situation though.

And, off topic and irrelevantly, all my favourite Ferraris are Sportscars.

[Tim Northcutt]

I checked some circuit websites for calendars and found out the following:

Only Estoril has the same weekend that Monza was scheduled available....they have most of their September dates available, but do not in October.

Brno and Barcelona both have the same weekend as Petit Le Mans available

Brno also has Sept 7-10

Barcelona has the weekends of October 14-16 and Oct. 21-23 open, in addition to the Petit weekend (Sept. 30-Oct.2)...all of September is booked for testing dates for cars or bikes.

Assen has Sept. 15-17 open

Zandvoort has no September dates open

Thus, I can understand why the LMS is having difficulties booking a new venue, and Estoril seems to be the most flexible option.

I hope that they DO NOT book the make-up event the same weekend as Petit!!!!!

[JAG]

When was a major sportscar race last held at Estoril, BPR days?

Seems to have been out of the news for a few years now.

[Tim Northcutt]

FIA-SCC ran their season-opener there in 2003, IIRC...the final year of the FIA-SCC's existence.

In April....it rained cats and dogs, with lots of spins and incidents.

[gttouring]

Monza is classic however- why did they bow to these anachronistic psychotic 'greenies' anyway? why should monza be stopped? move the date? every evry historic race book or review has a huge monza section, F1, Touring Car, Sportscars - why replace it or stop it... was there no room to negotiate- muffle the cars a bit just race there.. the greenies have they protested and tried to stop the noisy motorways which got them to the circuit- no that would be inconvenient- why don't they use horses and buggies? why not bicycle everywhere?
or better Fred FLintstone their 'cars' around. Expletive morons.
hypocrites and shameshame on that 'tribunal'
bah

[Tim Northcutt]

A few more circuits and their availabilities:

Valencia:
Sept. 7-10
Sept. 14-16
Sept. 21-23

Hungaroring:
Sept. 7-10
Sept. 14-16
Sept.21-23

Ledenon:
Sept. 21-23

Magny Cours:
Sept. 21-23

[David L]

Originally Posted by JAG

When was a major sportscar race last held at Estoril, BPR days?

Seems to have been out of the news for a few years now.

Two years.. FIA GT was there as recently as 2003, the Ferrari 575 made it's debut there..

[David L]

Originally Posted by gttouring

why don't they use horses and buggies? why not bicycle everywhere?

Funny you should mention it, but that's about the only way you can get around the rest of the park, usually..

[Adam43]

Tim that is great research

Your first list has some good one, but your second isn't grabbing me with 'classics'. Although, I accept that is perhaps being fussy.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by gttouring

Monza is classic however- why did they bow to these anachronistic psychotic 'greenies' anyway? why should monza be stopped? move the date? every evry historic race book or review has a huge monza section, F1, Touring Car, Sportscars - why replace it or stop it... was there no room to negotiate- muffle the cars a bit just race there.. the greenies have they protested and tried to stop the noisy motorways which got them to the circuit- no that would be inconvenient- why don't they use horses and buggies? why not bicycle everywhere?
or better Fred FLintstone their 'cars' around. Expletive morons.
hypocrites and shameshame on that 'tribunal'
bah

Although I agree that Monza is a classic circuit, and the LMS races there have been spectacular the past two years, they didn't draw flies to either of those two races according to reports I read about those events....3,000 the first year and maybe 5,000-6,000 last year at the most....

Given those figures, the Italians don't deserve a major sportscar race with attendance numbers like those....

I say race somewhere that fans will show up to enjoy the action.

At some point, sponsors are not going to keep supporting teams or the Series if they don't start attracting fans to their events.

Istanbul seems to be a total waste of time as well as travel money....

There are other venues and other countries that would love to host the LMS...where fans would love to see the race

I say race in those places....

[JAG]

Can't help feeling Istanbul is on borrowed time.

The ACO may have plumped for Istanbul at short notice in order to move Spa later in the calender.

Afterall it's such a waste to have a showpiece, potentially well attended Spa event constantly wrecked by awfull weather.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Tim that is great research

Your first list has some good one, but your second isn't grabbing me with 'classics'. Although, I accept that is perhaps being fussy.

I prefer the first list as well, Adam....so I do not consider your assessment as being "fussy" at all....the best circuits should be on the schedule, and the second group may not fit into that category....

But I'm just looking for some options in regions that currently have dates available, but are not necessarily served by the Series right now.....at least in the LMS season.

The Iberian Peninsula is obvious....but I don't know if Estoril is the place to do it....I don't know if they can draw a crowd there....Barcelona would draw, but their only available date is the same weekend as Petit.

France may not be the place to go due to LM, but those two venues could accommodate the LMS....

Hungary is far enough away from Nurburgring that it would be serving a broader audience...but the track doesn't thrill me...

I also think Holland in September is far enough away from Spa in May to give that portion of Europe a second event that would be well attended

Assen would be great....

Brno is not far from Nurburgring, but there is a separation of a couple of months....might be a stretch, but the circuit is definitely a classic....

They have tough choices to make....I hope they make a good one where fans will attend and teams will want to race.

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by JAG

When was a major sportscar race last held at Estoril, BPR days?

Seems to have been out of the news for a few years now.

Depends if you count ELMS 2001 (bent Gulf Audi) or FIA SCC 2003 (Shimoda in the wet).

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by JAG

Has Monza been a 'great race' in the last 25 years?

Last years FIA GT race was a belter.

Have we had a truly great FA Cup Final recently? Not IMO. But its still a great pull.

[Flat12-Aircool]

First of all I'm not sure that people who moan about the noise from circuits should really be categorised as "Greenies", they're just plain and simple Miserable gits.

Secondly I think people shouldn't write Istanbul off just yet as a venue for LMS. Yes it's a bit far away for some but don't forget it's still a very new venue and should be given time to develop some support from the potential fan base in that part of the world. Let's reserve judgment until after this years race, because providing they've fixed some of those traffic conjestion problems I would expect more to attend than last year.

And IMO it's a pretty good circuit, certainly the best of all the Tilke efforts so far.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Problem is...F1 is loud but they do the race of 300km in about 1h15mins. LMS is 1000km and a bit slower so there will be loud noise for a much longer period.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

Last years FIA GT race was a belter.

Have we had a truly great FA Cup Final recently? Not IMO. But its still a great pull.

I'm not talking about the action on track, but the 'event' itself.

The UK round switched from Silvertone to Donington, but Doningtion has run successful sportscar 'events' in recent years.

The 89/90 Group C races had an excellent entry and attendances, as did BPR GT and FIA GT (97/98). They also helped to build race attendance for the reborn 'GTS' FIA GT series from under 10k in 99/2000 to 30k+ in 2003/4.

Spa can pull in the crowds with decent weather, Nurburgring, given time, and promotion from Audi, Porsche etc. also deserves a round.

Can't say the for Monza or Istanbul.