Denver Race Thread (includes RACE spoilers)

[luke]

A bone headed move by Mr Traceeeey.

I don't like Bourdais and revenge strings to mind, but the move was stupid and again a rookie error from a past champion.

Well done to AJ. It's just a shame, again PT could have had a good race result. Would have been second again. But he seems to drive too hard.

Championship is living up.

[marcus]

Standings after Denver (penalties outstanding)
1 Sebastien Bourdais 275
2 A.J. Allmendinger 243
3 Justin Wilson 240
4 Paul Tracy 149
5 Nelson Philippe 149
6 Mario Dominguez 149
7 Will Power (R) 146
8 Andrew Ranger 142
9 Bruno Junqueira 140
10 Oriol Servia 140
11 Cristiano da Matta 134
12 Alex Tagliani 131
13 Dan Clarke (R) 124
14 Katherine Legge (R) 109
15 Charles Zwolsman (R) 101
16 Jan Heylen (R) 98
17 Nicky Pastorelli (R) 53
18 Tonis Kasemets (R) 30
19 Antonio Pizzonia (R) 11
20 Jimmy Vasser 7

[Hazard]

A great race by Tracy, for 96 laps anyway.

Some great results for other drivers aswell, a very retirement full day especially considering the diminished field.

I thought it was fight part 2, but it never got past the shove stage...he's just lucky Bourdais didn't go for him in return...clearly Seb was steamed up, he should have just left the shove.

The crash itself I don't have enough info on from what I could see...did he deliberately not brake in time for the corner to try and get back by do or die?

Regardless, given the probation, the shove etc. - a race ban should happen...but one of the top canadian driver's miss Montreal?

[carsten66]

A great race and okay, not the best move from Tracy but I call it a racing incident, happening when two drivers want to much... It was a big risk from Bourdais too to try it from the outside...

I know it's not 'political correct' but wasn't it fun to watch Tracy knocking Bourdais car out?! And the good thing is, now we get a thrilling championship fight with three guys in the last 4 races (... and with one US boy in the mix, the the first time since '96)

[Hazard]

Looking at the results...I'd AT LEAST expect Tracy to be put behind Bourdais in terms of round points.

Also, did I miss something...did Wilson pit on the last lap? Stupid move huh?

[SPRacer]

The incident itself was bad enough, but jeez Tracy sounded horrible in his post-race interview... "If he's that desparate for 2 points.." "Payback is a *****.."

Lost in all of this was an excellent drive by AJ. Never making a mistake and passing the two time defending series champ on the track for the lead. He is the real deal.

[alonso11]

I follow pretty much all the open-wheel categories, and many more type of motorracing, but I honestly don't know a racer more obnoxious than tracy, he is clearly in the leauge of his own in this matter.

[enemy-ace]

Pretty exciting race. The poor quality of the Bridgestone Reds really livened up the action. Nice to see Bridgestone pushing the envelope even though it went away from them this weekend.
A nice solid win for AJ. I am surprised at how far he is out of the lead still though.
In regards to the PT-Bourdais incident I have to agree that it was a long, loooong shot on PT's part. But I have to ask; If you were in that position on the last lap, last corner wouldn't you make the attempt to regain your position? I really can't blame him for taking the shot.

[mountainstar]

For those of you who were not at the race in Denver, you missed an amazing event. The crowds were massive everywhere. It had to be more than last year. The great thing about Denver is how fan friendly it is.

*Good food(thanks Colorado Buffalo Grill)
*Everything is easy to get to
*You can pretty much walk most of the track
*With a paddock pass, you can stand 10 feet behind the pits
*Plenty of merchandising, displays of cars, beach volleyball(yes!), the concert, the street party, plenty of opportunity to meet drivers and plenty of Cleavage

This is the race you MUST go to.

Formula BMW: If you can catch this on speed, do so, it was a great race with a lot of good passes. The main sad thing about FBMW is that SORF's are ever present with plenty of fathers living though little johnny on the racetrack. There also appears to be some drivers who are terrible and really need some coaching and instructing. But there is some good talent here that may be worth watching if they make the step up.

Atlantics: This race was really boring because of a few incidents and the yellow kept coming out. But the new Atlantic cars looked really, really good and I think champcar has a good feeder series. I'm hoping Pagenaud wins the championship. It now appears Graham Rahal is all but confirmed at Newman Haas for next year.

Champcar: Excellent race. I was at the first corner melee and at first appearance it looked as though tag smacked tracy, but from the replays I couldn't tell. I left the grandstand after a few laps and did a track walk and finished the race back in the grandstand. Everyone in the stands was excited to see AJ win. Tracy needs to be suspended. He is clearly out of control and a danger to others. Good on Bourdais for shoving him.

Champcar Pace Car Rides: These are hilarious. Just stand by the fence when they do these and you'll be in hysterics looking at peoples facial expressions when the car blasts by. They were using Shelby GT Mustangs and a GT40. Awesome. The sound is unbelievable.

The Speed World Challenge Touring Car Race: I was surprised at how many stayed to watch after the champcar race. This was another great race with some hard fought racing going on. The last lap was absolutely amazing with 5/1000 of second finish. If you don't get speed tv the race will be available for download from speed on demand for $1.99.

So, it was an excellent event and I'm sure we'll get a new title sponsor to replace centrix. Bridgestone was honored with a nice award which to me said thanks for stepping up at the last minute. They certainly were not passive about their sponsorship by passing out scads of posters and plenty of advertising.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by carsten66

I know it's not 'political correct' but wasn't it fun to watch Tracy knocking Bourdais car out?!

Objecting to someone taking another car out has nothing to do with political correctness. It is unfair to dismiss people's views using that. They object to it because it was crass and the wrong thing to do.

It was fun to watch someone catch another and overtake him on the last lap cleanly. The beaten driver trying something that was never on and taking both of them out spoiled the fun.

And the good thing is, now we get a thrilling championship fight with three guys in the last 4 races (... and with one US boy in the mix, the the first time since '96)

That is alright then. You will be keeping your fingers crossed that Bourdais gets taken out unfairly again then to really close it up.

[carsten66]

First of all it was a thrilling race... with many overtakings...

And thinking of Bourdais, he isn't that poor boy, remembering last year Bourdais took Tracy three times out of races and this year Tag was taken out by him... that was unfair too

... You also can ask what's up with the brain of Bourdais? He had a secure third place in the race and is keeping the points lead in the championship - why taking such a high risk at the end of the last lap?

[Adam43]

It was a thrilling race, but I fail to see the relevance when judging this manoever. It was thrilling with or without this. This only served to (slightly) spoil what had been good racing up to that point.

The argument about two wrongs making a right is irrelevant IMHO.

It wasn't a high risk move. He was easily past. As a racing driver Bourdais should have and did go for it. If that move is deemed foolish then we are in trouble!

[Jordi]

In hindsight Bourdais should probably have braked earlier and let Tracy go flying by past the apex, but hindsight is a great thing.

I however wouldn't penalise anyone, I think it was a racing incident. Losing second place after being almost dead last on lap 1 surely makes you try a last-corner pass, and there's the possibility of it working or not. It's not like Tracy completely caromed into Bourdais at a thousand miles per hour, he nearly made it stick.

Racing incident for me.

And also: unlucky Oriol...

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Jordi

Losing second place after being almost dead last on lap 1 surely makes you try a last-corner pass, and there's the possibility of it working or not. It's not like Tracy completely caromed into Bourdais at a thousand miles per hour, he nearly made it stick.

Didn't think he was anywhere close - he practically spun into Bourdais. The problem is not so much the incident in itself but the attitude behind it - one of complete, total and utter indifference for other road users. Anyone can drive like that. These guys are meant to be elite.

[luke]

I can't see how it was a racing incident IMO. Tracy knew in his head the last corner was his last chance. He knew that was where he had atleast a chance. Even from a car length back or was it more? He came from no where, locked his brakes got a little side ways and took out Sebastien. Even Dan Clarke wouldn't have done such a move.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Jordi

Losing second place after being almost dead last on lap 1 surely makes you try a last-corner pass, and there's the possibility of it working or not. It's not like Tracy completely caromed into Bourdais at a thousand miles per hour, he nearly made it stick.

Nearly made it stick? Nah, it was doomed to failure. I'm not saying he should take being overtaken lying down, but he was beaten - it wasn't on. Not even nearly.

[Knowlesy]

I still think the move was a racing incident, although a rather desperate one.

Like others I am saddened and disappointed by Paul's attitude regarding it though. And that makes the incident a bit worse in hindsight.

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Nearly made it stick? Nah, it was doomed to failure. I'm not saying he should take being overtaken lying down, but he was beaten - it wasn't on. Not even nearly.

He locked the rears indeed, but with a little more luck maybe they would've just bumped wheels. I'm not a racing driver though, so perhaps from the couch at home it looked more possible!

Like knowlesy says, his attitude about it is worse that the fact that he collided on the last corner.

It's also reprobable that Bourdais suggested that PT did it to help Allmendinger... but Bourdais isn't one to mince words either, is he?

[Adam43]

Well I haven't driven a ChampCar either, but it seemed doomed to failure to my eyes. Still we can never say for absolute certain, but when can we ever

From Bourdais POV it didn't hurt Forsythe, did it? I haven't heard what he had to say about it, but you don't need much paranoia to think the worse!

However I agree it was a racing incident, but one done out of a poor lack of judgement on PT's part. He didn't mean to take SB out, but probably didn't care if he did and was delusioned if he thought it would come off.

[luke]

Bourdais saying it was to help his team mate was typical Bourdais. Savy but typical Bourdais. Some could say it is the reason but I doubt it. Paul was going to have a 1-3 with his team mate. He needed a podium / solid result and its great to see him on the pace again, however he wouldn't of intentionaly taken him out IMO to some extenet as quite a few people were lapped even high up so he still finished something around 6th.....and he needed that postion for him and the team. If he was a lap down, that's a 100% different story.

[mac]

Some might suggest that Paul is a little desperate, due to the thumping he is getting from his bright, young, new team mate.

[Snrub]

A good race with lots of action.

One thing I don't like is the points system. I realize that few cars finished, but it is ridiculous that Bourdais didn't finish and AJ hardly gained any ground on him in the standings.

Great to see AJ win it again.

It's interesting, when he's had trouble with the Bridgestone reds Bourdais has really struggled. It didn't appear that Junquiera or a lot of the other drives had the same issues (granted he doesn't drive as fast). Is it possible that we are seeing a weakness in Bourdais - that he's not very good at driving around certain difficult tire situations?

Tracy should have conceeded the position, he had no chance. From a championship perspective Bourdais shouldn't have realized how stubbourn PT was going to be about it. Then again, what did Bourdais lose, 2 points for crashing and he had 2 points to gain if he had made the pass stick?

[mountainstar]

I just think tracy with all of his huffing and puffing to get ahead after the 1st corner accident(to be applauded for sure) and to end up getting roasted by the stategic thinking bourdais on the last lap before the last corner was too much to bear. Therefore he did a kamikaze dive bomber and lost it.

Anyways, it certainly made for an interesting end to the race.

[alonso11]

I dont bloody understand if they dont suspend him why did they put him on probation in the first place. isnt it a joke by the ruling body to say, listen this is your last chance, if you dont behave, you will only have another last chance after this, or perhaps two. OK, i guess it's down to the fact that there are only 16 cars on the field, and it happend in the late F3000 era too that a few teams (like BNC and Astromega) could get away with a few minor irregularities (not irregular cars of course) just so that they could finish the season, but it's a completely different a story, here they shouldn't be concerned with that, they should be concerned with safety, and also with the fact that trashy is doing moves like this every season, i still dumbfounded that they didnt penalize him after moves like he did on Jourdain in 2003. It's about time they did somethin other than looking infirm (and of course they can allow someone else in the Indeck car because the team is not to be punished) when is the hearing anyway?

[ggreen29]

For a driver with PT’s skill and experience there is no excuse. If he’s going to do a miracle run he needs to do it in a way that doesn’t take other people out.

All in all a sour end to a great race and great performances by PT & Sebby, until the last turn. PT starting from the back of the pack after the first turn, and then earning his way to the front with great passes and driving. Sebby holding it together as best he could on the red tires, then coming back with at least three fastest laps, earning his way to the front…all spoiled by PT making a bonehead move and topped by Sebby's bonehead reaction. This isn't NASCAR.

I’d like to see PT suspended for at least one race, possibly two. Then it’s time for him to retire…I was turning into a fan of his until these last two races.

Sebby should be docked at least ten points, maybe twenty, for starting the out-of-car altercation, intiating the physical contact, and doing it on an active track on the outside of a mid-speed turn.