Group A MG Metro Turbos - Where are they now?

[Peter Mallett]

But the letter from Roger D states

Originally Posted by Roger Dowson Letter

MT 001
Pond - Nº 35 - 1983 BTCC Rds 4 to 7 inclusive.
M Brundle - Nº 37 - 1983 BTCC Rd 11.

[chunterer]

So it's the first car, just painted up in 84 colours for show?

[Peter Mallett]

Right,

In 1984 only the Soper car had the underbonnet fuel coolers correct?

If you compare the 2004/2005 advertised car, the MGCC car and the Gayden car with Soper's, they've all got those under bumper fuel cooling ducts. Could the "Pond" connection be incorrect and in fact what we are looking at is the same car, the Soper MT004 car?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes I guess in the absence of any hard info the auctioneers felt that Tony Pond's name would carry more weight than anyone else who pedalled it?

Quite possibly 'chunter'.

Originally Posted by chunterer

If he did then it must have been an early car as Peter suggests, as Pond drove the first Turbo in 1983 didn't he.

Yes, 001 in BTCC Rds 4 to 7, 003 in BTCC Rds 8 to 11 and 003 in ETC Rd 11.

Originally Posted by chunterer

I thought that we'd already confirmed that the Pond car was 003 and then did the '84 TT n Watts' hands?

We know that 003 was the first ETC specification car (1983 Silverstone and 1984 Donington), and that 006 was to become the second ETC car. But we don't know of the two cars entered at 1984 Silverstone, which was 003 and which was 006?

Originally Posted by chunterer

Actually did we find out which one got pranged at that Woodcote shunt?

Likewise not confirmed, but either 003 or 006.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But the letter from Roger D states

The letter from Dowson also states...

Originally Posted by Roger Dowson's letter

MT 003
Pond - Nº 35 - 1983 BTCC Rds 8 to 11 inclusive.
Pond / Watts - Nº 59 - 1983 ETC Rd 11 (Silverstone Tourist Trophy).
Watts / R Brundle - Nº 61 - 1984 ETCC Rd 3 (Donington 500).

Which means it could also be 003 as well I guess, as that too was used by Tony Pond, but was also resprayed in Computervision livery for 1984.

Too much speculation for my mind. One thing I do know, is that I place far more historical value and authenticity on an A4 piece of paper that I received in the Summer of 1984, than I do in any modern auction listing I'm afraid. A lot can be forgotton or embellished in the space of 20 odd years!

[Peter Mallett]

Which is roughly where I'm coming from with my coment above. Apologies I missed the 003 connection in the letter.

[MG Rover Sport]

No worries Peter.

It all proves that there is still a lot of speculation concerning these cars, which I'm sure will only get resolved if Roger Dowson himself or a current owner joins the thread.

I have other comments to make, but work beckons I'm afraid!

[chunder]

Slightly OT, but am currently contract working in a very old and disused MArconi building not used since the early 90's and while working away yesterday was having a mooch round and saw a colour scheme I recognised on a shelf, turned it round and it was Computervision box complete with big logo, but faded but fantastic memories, made me think of Pondy!!
Presume they made monitors??

[MG Rover Sport]

This thread has gone off topic more times than I've had hot dinners, 'chunder' - so I wouldn't worry about doing it again!

Computerversion were responsible for 3D drawing software and hardware specifically for the car industry, but I'm sure there are other industries that used their product. The cars carried sunstrips which stated 'FIRST IN CAD / CAM' - which stands for Computer Aided Design / Computer Aided Manufacture!

If any geeks out there want to know more, check out Wikipedia!

[RichWard]

Hi all. I've just noticed this thread and find it very interesting. I used to own an ex-Turbo Challenge car and I'm a huge fan of 6R4's, but I am hoping that some of you can help me out with a project I am working on. It is a free addon for a PC based racing game (rFactor), that is based on the Group A Touring Car era. The Metro Turbo is one of the many cars to be included.
Do any of you have any detailed info about the engines, gearbox, suspension etc, or pics that we can use to recreate the different liveries? So far we have the '84 BTCC and ETCC (seen above) cars done, aswell as the Unipart cars of Tony Pond from '83, the Armin Hahne DPM '84 car and Colin Pearcy's BTCC '87 car.

[davyboy]

Slightly off topic here Rich but do you have any copyright implications with using those cars with those liveries in computer games ? Is such use not protected ?

[RichWard]

As I (or any of the others working on them) will not make any sort of profit (it's made and distributed for free), I don't think anyone will mind some free advertising.

[MG Rover Sport]

Here's a photo of the Armin Hahne entry at Zolder on 19 August 1984. Armin finished 4th Overall and in the process beat 3 BMW 635 CSis and a Rover Vitesse!



Photo appears courtesy of www.touringcarracing.net

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Armin Hahne entry at Zolder on 19 August 1984. Armin finished 4th Overall and in the process beat 3 BMW 635 CSis and a Rover Vitesse!

Good find there.

Also, interesting logo on the side! - is there anything we should know here?

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry, a little slow this evening - 'anything we should know' like what 'chunterer'?

[chunterer]

Sorry not had lot of time to rep,y to much lately but I thought the word 'Massa' was fairly obvious, even if that particular family likely has nothing to do with that sponsor logo!

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry - told you I was a little s l o w w w w w!

[MG Rover Sport]

I managed to pick up a copy of the May 2004 issue of Retro Cars the other day, and there is a feature on touring cars. The three cars featured are an Austin A35, a Broadspeed Grp 2 Triumph Dolomite Sprint and one of the Roger Dowson Grp A MG Metro Turbos.

The latter is the ex-Gaydon car sold at the auction to Dave Bradley for his 14 year old son, James.

It doesn't really give that much information away on the MG, except to say 'Number 35 was one of three cars prepared for Austin Rover for the 1984 season.' Pretty much what we knew already.

[MG Rover Sport]

Hi KA - I don't suppose you'd mind re-doing that post of yours from Sunday concerning the German that possibly used the ex-Armin Hahne MG Metro Turbo during the 1985 DTM would you?

Apparently all of Sunday's posts were lost due to a database corruption I think, and I didn't have time to fully take in the contents. Many thanks.

[KA]

No problem- I wondered where it had gone when I looked in here yesterday....

According to the results archive on the DTM website, Volker Anhalt appeared at 3 DTM meetings in 1985 with a Metro turbo- Wunstorf in May (DNF), Mainz-Finthen in early June (finished 15th), and the double-race meeting at Erding a week later- (DNF & 22nd).

At a guess, is this the ex-Hahne car, either run by Dowson for a limited programme, or sold on to a German team? Whichever, after Anhalt's few outings it didn't appear again with any other driver as far as I can tell from the rest of the year's results.
http://www.dtm.com/statistik-fahrer....er=V.%20Anhalt

[GBRM]

If anyone can think of any specific questions for Roger Dowson then please post them or pm me with them, as I'm seeing him on Saturday at Silverstone.

I spoke to him last week and he said he'll pop over and cast his experienced eye over my Droop Snoot race car hopefully and if I get a chance I'll pick his brains on the Metros.

[MG Rover Sport]

Thanks KA - that's the one! Personally I have never heard of Volker Anhalt - but then again, I don't know everything for sure!

I'll have a look through over the weekend, and come back to you with any findings / comments. Thanks again for re-posting.

Thanks Gregor - very much appreciated. Tell Roger that he sent me a list of all of the 1983/84 MG Metro chassis numbers sometime between the 1984 BTCC withdrawal and that year's Silverstone Tourist Trophy. The early cars listed are 001, 002, 003, 005, with 006 and 007 being new cars for the tale end of the 1984 season. The list includes what each car was used for.

So 'some' questions could be...

a) The only chassis missing from the above mentioned list in 1984 was 004? Does he know the history of this particular chassis? We know it was on display at Syon House / Gaydon till the auction in 2004 when it was sold to the Bradleys.

b) What has happened to the other cars, apart from 003 (being ex-Pearcy/Marshall car) and 004?

c) Did Volker Anhalt use the ex-Armin Hahne 1984 Massa/Real sponsored car for four rounds of the 1985 German series? Did Roger Dowson run the car for him that year?

d) How many cars in total were built? Were there any spare bodyshells made that could now have been built up into complete cars?

e) Was Paul Taft's entry totally privateer, or a semi works backed entry? Did he actually own the car?

If I think of any more prior to Saturday Gregor, I'll let you know - that's if it's not too late already that is? You might have left for Silverstone this afternoon! Thanks again for offering to ask Roger some questions.

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Thanks KA - that's the one! Personally I have never heard of Volker Anhalt - but then again, I don't know everything for sure!

I'll have a look through over the weekend, and come back to you with any findings / comments. Thanks again for re-posting.

Thanks Gregor - very much appreciated. Tell Roger that he sent me a list of all of the 1983/84 MG Metro chassis numbers sometime between the 1984 BTCC withdrawal and that year's Silverstone Tourist Trophy. The early cars listed are 001, 002, 003, 005, with 006 and 007 being new cars for the tale end of the 1984 season. The list includes what each car was used for.

So 'some' questions could be...

a) The only chassis missing from the above mentioned list in 1984 was 004? Does he know the history of this particular chassis? We know it was on display at Syon House / Gaydon till the auction in 2004 when it was sold to the Bradleys.

b) What has happened to the other cars, apart from 003 (being ex-Pearcy/Marshall car) and 004?

c) Did Volker Anhalt use the ex-Armin Hahne 1984 Massa/Real sponsored car for four rounds of the 1985 German series? Did Roger Dowson run the car for him that year?

d) How many cars in total were built? Were there any spare bodyshells made that could now have been built up into complete cars?

e) Was Paul Taft's entry totally privateer, or a semi works backed entry? Did he actually own the car?

If I think of any more prior to Saturday Gregor, I'll let you know - that's if it's not too late already that is? You might have left for Silverstone this afternoon! Thanks again for offering to ask Roger some questions.

Think you've covered most of the things I wanted to know about!! Anhalt is a total mystery to me, but so are a lot of things about 80's DTM....

[GBRM]

David

No problems, I'll pick Roger's brains and see what he says. Luckily I only live 45 minutes from Silverstone, so I'll be leaving just before 8am tomorrow morning, will do all the loading and packing tonight.

In case Roger asks what's your surname David? You can pm me if you'd prefer others not to know!!

Cheers.

[MG Rover Sport]

No problems at all Gregor - it's David Sims, and I wrote to him in 1984. He may recall, he may not? I think I even wrote to him 2 or 3 years ago to clarify a few points, but never received a reply unfortunately.

[MG Rover Sport]

Hi Gregor,

Was Roger forthcoming with any information then, or didn't you get the opportunity to ask him any questions?