GT2 replaced by GT3 ..... ACO new idea

[Zytek_Fan]

I wouldn't draw conclusions about 2010 LMP1s yet. Most of the LMP1 teams are against them.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by pitviper

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mid-engi...-possible.html

this potential news seems to scream LMP1, especially after GM crowing that they won't race a car that isn't "based" off of one of the road cars... well, this could be that roadcar... an LMP1 with styling taken from a car like this... and curious how the time line is for 2010...

pit

It could be a regular mid-engined C7, with a P1 using the styling cues, not directly related.

[pitviper]

that's exactly what I was thinking actually...

pit

[Sportscarguy08]

as long as the GM factory group doesnt come in and take away all the hard work done by Callaway then i wll be ok with GT3 for now...

Personally i love watching the GT1 races, so lets hope GT1 stays around a bit longer...

[bil588]

Originally Posted by archibold

Interesting discussion. Can anyone confirm that the Corvette GT1 programme is funded for '08 in Europe? My understanding is that it was not yet (but may be by now), removing one of the two main GT1 works teams would force the ACOs hand in my opinion. With no new cars on the horizon (sorry don't agree with those that suggest there are...they take one look at the Aston/'Vette and say no thanks IMHO).

GT2 cars may not have park sensors (as some people seem to suggest makes road cars more sophisticated) but have you examined the 997 GT2's 24 settings of traction control with four steering wheel selectable in race? I'm sure the 430 is similar but not really examined one and I'm sure it's great to twiddle your knob whilst racing but...do we really need this type of technology to go GT racing?

My opinion (and it is only my opinion) is that GT2 will replace GT1 in the next year or two (maybe '08 or '09). GT3 is constantly escalating (I know I drive a Viper that was the car to have last year - at least in competent hands), GT3 will take a step forward again in '08 the lambo is already seeing to that. It seems natural to me that if you want to reduce costs to get more cars (presumably that's why you would do this) then you knock the GT1 class off and let the others shuffle up a bit (GT2/3/4).

Seems logical to me and if it brings 50 car grids a la GT3 to FIA GT, Open GT, ALMS etc etc and improves the quality/class in others why not? The cars will get faster year on year as they develop...that is inevitable at some point you have to reset the levels.

If anyone is at Thruxton this weekend come see us at #17 and we can continue the discussion over a cup of tea.

Archibold

the 997 really has 24 settings for traction control? where is the source?

[HORNDAWG]

So if the FIA does completely replace GT-1&2 with GT-3 and the ACO moves carte blanche, as some have suggested, with them and it becomes the carte du jour for GT will we then see the castration of the Prototypes as well? While this wholesale restructure may be just fine for FIA as they run no prototypes it still leaves glaring questions in my mind on how the ACO will address the performance differentiation between GT's and Prototypes when the slower GT's are integrated into the "LM" grids!


L.P.

[The Real DMN]

I don't think we'll see a huge loss in performance in the switch to the new GT class system. Some of the current GT3's have been faster than GT2's this year. Put a larger engine in them and they'll be near current GT1 speeds.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The Real DMN

I don't think we'll see a huge loss in performance in the switch to the new GT class system. Some of the current GT3's have been faster than GT2's this year. Put a larger engine in them and they'll be near current GT1 speeds.

Yeah more engine and then take away the brakes,as they are to expensive, and give them back steel. So now they have to slow down farther back from the corner and create higher closing speeds with the Proto's! This aint a drag race where just a bigger engine keeps the cars in touch with each other.

L.P.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Yeah more engine and then take away the brakes,as they are to expensive, and give them back steel. So now they have to slow down farther back from the corner and create higher closing speeds with the Proto's! This aint a drag race where just a bigger engine keeps the cars in touch with each other.

L.P.

Carbon brakes arent that expensive compared to what a transmission costs to current GT1 & 2 cars. Valid point tho!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

...l leaves glaring questions in my mind on how the ACO will address the performance differentiation between GT's and Prototypes when the slower GT's are integrated into the "LM" grids!


L.P.

Remove the 25mm air restrictor in each of the intakes on the corvette and it will almost be as fast as the Audi R10. Katech the Corvette engine builder has speculated that without air restriction, the LS7.r engine would run just about 900 bhp.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

then take away the brakes,as they are to expensive, and give them back steel.

Carbon brakes are more expensive to buy initially. I'm told long-term costs are about the same. This is supposedly a non-issue.

[Speed-King]

So here it is. Projekt Le Mans seems to have the details:

http://www.projectlemans.de/rennseri...port-2009.html

It's in German, but there's a google-translation button on the top right of the page.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by bil588

the 997 really has 24 settings for traction control? where is the source?

24 Rings a bell to me. I've heard that from the boys at Flying Lizard.

Chris

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Yeah more engine and then take away the brakes,as they are to expensive, and give them back steel. So now they have to slow down farther back from the corner and create higher closing speeds with the Proto's! This aint a drag race where just a bigger engine keeps the cars in touch with each other.

L.P.

They currrently use steel brakes in the FIA don't they? I know they all use one stock model provided for them, unless I read wrong. ACO GT2's use steel brakes already I know that as fact. So I can't see the braking distances being TOO much worse. They will be longer of course, more weight, more power, less stopping power etc.

They are also talking about allowing some aero dynamic improvements, so I also expecy cornering speeds would not be much worse. At this time I also recal a coment from Sebring this year where a TV announcer said the GT2 cars had the best cornering speed as their weight gave them more grip than the proto's.

What I'm trying to get at is that I still don't belive we'll see a huge decrease in lap times (as we know, their a better indication than out right speeds) and therefore (and hopefully) the ACO won't see the need to tame the protos too much. I do think we will see them slowed down, at least at first. Untill the teams and factories start to develop the cars.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

24 Rings a bell to me. I've heard that from the boys at Flying Lizard.

Chris

im pretty sure sean edwards said to me it only has 12 or 13 settings, or mabe it was that he used setting 12 or 13 i cant remember lol.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

So here it is. Projekt Le Mans seems to have the details:

http://www.projectlemans.de/rennseri...port-2009.html

It's in German, but there's a google-translation button on the top right of the page.

The Google translation left me almost as confused as I was before I read the article.

[mirkob]

try to translate this italian article: http://www.racingworld.it/fiagt/noti...?idtitolo=3722, maybe you have more luck

or directly in english: http://forums.tpgleague.org/showthread.php?p=40401

[Spyderman]

Thank you! That's much clearer!

[EuropaBambaataa]

Wow. That is unbelievably confusing.

Does Ratel really feel the need to reinvent the wheel? I can come up with a much clearer set of regulations.

GT2 is based on the current GT3. All cars need to be homologated in GT2 in order to receive GT1 homologation. In GT2 they retain a mostly standard engine, chassis and aero. Minimum production units is 200 for large manufacturers and 40 or 50 for small manufacturers. Minimum weight is used for equalization of performance between cars with different engine sizes.

GT1 cars are identical to GT2, except for larger wings, possibility of increased displacement or use of a supercharger/turbocharger, use of carbon fiber brakes and so on.

The public can tell the two classes apart with the racing numbers: red on yellow background for GT1, navy blue on white background for GT2; or we could use Ratel's idea of separating classes, which doesn't seem that bad. So FIA GT runs 2 hour races, Euro GT2 Cup two 60 minute races - and no more of that minimum 3 cars per team.

The current GT4 class is scrapped, or turns into GT3 but only for national championships.

What this basically means is that, eg, in order to run a Murcielago in GT1 and a Gallardo in GT2, Lamborghini would have to homologate both cars in GT2 first.

[mirkob]

"All cars need to be homologated in GT2 in order to receive GT1 homologation"

where do you read this ?

every cars can only be homologated for one class
(exception for Mustang and M6)

[EuropaBambaataa]

Sorry, I wasn't clear - that's my proposal to the rules, instead of Stephane Ratel's weird separations based on engine displacement, all cars would need to be in the same class before being allowed to race in another one.

[AU N EGL]

All cars need to be homologated in GT2 in order to receive GT1 homologation.

Does someone need to spend a little time on the http://www.FIA.com under Sport, Homologation, web site??

[EuropaBambaataa]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Does someone need to spend a little time on the http://www.FIA.com under Sport, Homologation, web site??

I know the current regulations. What I meant with my previous post is that is my proposal to a new set of regulations. I think Stephane Ratel has been smoking some bad weed and his new regulations are very confusing.

The idea of having GT1 cars homologated in GT2 first would be to prevent the appearance of supercars like the Maserati MC12.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Yeah... Why not just talk about the actual rules now instead of confusing even more with even more non useful posts?

K, thx, bye.

About the list of possible GT1 cars for 2009. What is that based on, is it just a made up list of cars that COULD race, or is it a list of cars that the manufacturers have said they MIGHT be interested in racing?
Also, doenst it say maximum size for Turbo cars in GT1 is 3.3 litres, still the Porsche at 3.8 litres are listed, together with some other bigger turbo cars? Whats that all about? And will they actually make the Turbo cars competetive this time? Which they have never been under FIA rules.


Oh, also, the KEONIGSEGG CCGT will never be seen shining in the top class of the worlds best GT racing? How sad isnt that? It doenst even get a chance to show what its worth, if it doenst come out of the shadows to race next year that is. Koenigsegg will never be able to make 300 cars, not anytime soon anyway. So what now, aim at LMP Coupes instead?

[Speed-King]

The 3.3l is probably the minimum size for turbo-cars in order to compete in GT1. So no problem for the Porsche, if turbos are competitive at all. I hope they are.