2008 ALMS rumours

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I know its a long trip down to reality from where you are but just go look at ANY of the ALMS demographic neighborhoods and count the sheer numbers. Living in a college town, I see prob 2:1 TL/TSX compared to Accords and so many Lexus derivatives you would swear it was a dealer lot, both parents and their offspring. And the numbers of those people who will argue with you until they are blue that their car is different would make your head spin. Doesn't matter that you open the hood on older Acuras and there's the big powered by Honda badge, not sure about the current engine badging.
So the claims about running the Lexus badged vehicles, even something as ugly as the the SC430, or for Nissan the Z350 double G35, is a marketing exercise in targeting exactly the "morons" that buy the cars for the badge only. Why do you think they run the Acuras in the SWC TC race, and yes I remember the real Acura race car but its a long time and distance from the NSX to the RSX/TSX.

Well then that proves it, no matter whether NASCAR fans are knuckle draggers or not, ALMS fans are of even lower IQ.

I live in a college town also, and are todays youts generally mechanically illiterate, hmmm, drag racing is very strong, magazines such as PHR and Hot Rod have many people who are well educated and true gear-heads, hmmm, must be just your college town; whereas you did say, it was a long way DOWN from where I am to where you are, that explains it.

Bob

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by racing_line

There are no North America BMW Factory drivers because there is no BMW Factory team right now. I'm sure if BMW comes back, they'll be contacting Auberlen and Hand pretty quickly.

What if BMW comes back with someone other than PTG though? Seems like Milner has a pretty strong relationship with Auberlen and Hand. I wonder if they'd leave for BMW? Maybe it's time for change for Auberlen, who knows.

I doubt you'd see any WTCC drivers on a BMW North America funded program. They'd want to pick their drivers. Plus with all of the clashes with WTCC that are bound to happen I can't see that happening.

I'm not so sure we'll see them next year. If the car isn't even built yet, which it sounds like it isn't, you can't expect to have it tested and ready to win races come Sebring this late in the game.

Auberlen doesn't have a "factory" drive, but I heard he has a contract with BMW.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Auberlen doesn't have a "factory" drive, but I heard he has a contract with BMW.

Racing-Line:

When people talk about time lines all I do is point to the 90 day period it took Benz and AMG to come up with the CLK-GTR and boy did that car suck -

Its based on a unitbody my goodness how long does it take if money is no object??

I be willing to bet money it would take them no more than 30 days to have a car ON TRACK. M Power or Schnizer are not newbies to building racing cars.

The deal will get done this market is super important to BMW and with many more pretenders to the throne they want to prove they are still the car to have and how the racing car directly relates what you drive on the street.

BMW Racing folded up tent in America mainly because the E46 was ending production, the car was no longer competitive with inline 6 power and they knew that when they built the M3 GTR's; but the ACO slapped them down and they just waited for the production car to go online instead of building an expensive limited production model.

It is only a matter of time before the M3 comes back to GT2.... The last race is in Oct, Sebring is in March, so what your issue? There's plenty of time to get cars built and tested in time for the first race of 2008.

I mean take what you learned with the E46, apply to E92 add V8 power - DONE, they built the GTR remember???

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Racing-Line:

When people talk about time lines all I do is point to the 90 day period it took Benz and AMG to come up with the CLK-GTR and boy did that car suck -

90 days? who was anyone kidding? Race ready cars takes 6 to 9 months to build and test, before its first race.

The 997s may take 90 days to prep. Most teams take them apart down to the frame then rebuild them so they know every part and how it works.

[Speed-King]

You can read the story of the CLK here:

http://www.geocities.com/simontmallett/clk.html

Actually it was more than 90 days, but the order to built the car was given in december and the first race of the next season was in early April.

BUT: AMG built the racecar before the homologation special and both were heavily based on Mercedes' ITC-touring car racer from 1996, so it wasn't an all new car and they had much more liberties in the construction of the car than Bimmer has today with the M3.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

You can read the story of the CLK here:

http://www.geocities.com/simontmallett/clk.html

Actually it was more than 90 days, but the order to built the car was given in december and the first race of the next season was in early April.

BUT: AMG built the racecar before the homologation special and both were heavily based on Mercedes' ITC-touring car racer from 1996, so it wasn't an all new car and they had much more liberties in the construction of the car than Bimmer has today with the M3.

So it was still 6 to 9 months, with less then 90 days to a customer to finish the project.

[Speed-King]

No, it was at the most four and a half month (Dez, Jan, Feb, Mar, half of April). And there was no customer involved in the production of the car, as AMG was the official Merc works team back then and was made a complete Mercedes subsidiary soon after.

[The359]

Did they start construction before or after they tested things out on the McLaren F1 GTR hackjob?

Anyway, count Dario Franchitti out for ALMS in 2008: ESPN now reporting he's confirming his move to NASCAR.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

So it was still 6 to 9 months, with less then 90 days to a customer to finish the project.

I said 90 days they had a car BUILT and that is true. They had the ITC chassis to work with and you saw the finished product.

Within 128 days, the basic design of the CLK GTR was planned, with a Mercedes-Benz M120 V12 engine being the heart of the car, mounted behind the cockpit. The bodywork would be made entirely of carbon fiber, and would feature many aerodynamic design elements and cooling openings in order to survive on the race track.

To test the CLK GTR before the first chassis were built, Mercedes-AMG actually took an unusual measure. Through secrecy, Mercedes-AMG was able to purchase a disused McLaren F1 GTR, the defending BPR GT series champion, from Larbre Compétition. This purchase first allowed Mercedes-AMG to see the kind of lap times that their competitors could run, to serve as a measurement of the CLK GTRs abilities. However, more importantly, Mercedes-AMG set about modifying this F1 GTR by attaching bodywork that was meant to go on the CLK GTRs. This allowed Mercedes-AMG to be able to perfect the aerodynamics of the car before it had even been built.

128 days to have a running car on the test track. If it takes you 6-9 months you don't -

A) have enough manpower

B) have enough money

For Benz A or B is never an issue...

[Speed-King]

It may take longer, though for a GT2 car, where you find a lot of constraints from the original chassis and have to make more compromises than for a 90s GT1 pseudo-prototype.
But I think that as long as Bimmer start to built the car within the next one or two months, they should be fine.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by The359

Did they start construction before or after they tested things out on the McLaren F1 GTR hackjob?

Anyway, count Dario Franchitti out for ALMS in 2008: ESPN now reporting he's confirming his move to NASCAR.

I just saw that, on the ticker under the Oregon/Michigan game lol, PAC 10 baby...

128 days is just over 4 months.... But the ITC car was front engined and the CLK mid engine; a BMW M3 CSL race car isn't that much removed from the BMW 320i WTCC cars. The biggest difference is body panels, less doors and the amount of electronics used (TC and ABS). The track will be wider and it uses bigger tires under the rules, but still shouldn't take long and of course you never learn as much about a car testing as you do actually racing it.

Sebring is an EXCELLENT lab to see just how good or bad your car is, especially with best Ferrari and Porsche teams, your rivals.

PTG would be a natural choice they know the tracks we run on. But its not like AC is out to lunch, they won the GT title in '00.

[HORNDAWG]

Its a QUACK ATTACK! Go Ducks!!


L.P.

[Jonerz]

Only because Michigan are sucking this year. Toughest conference is the SEC, Pac-10 is weak!

Back to the racing debate boys,

Chris

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Only because Michigan are sucking this year. Toughest conference is the SEC, Pac-10 is weak!

Back to the racing debate boys,

Chris

Ummm, you just wait... We play the SEC a few times this season (1-0 so far).

The SEC top 4 teams are good, the rest.. Not so much.

Michigan is just overrated as usual just like ND, its east coast bias...

Back on topic yes...

[ThePenguin]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Michigan is just overrated as usual just like ND, its east coast bias...

Off Topic: Sure Michigan has been overrated before, as they are now, but they are still a very good team. And if they can put the pieces back together they have a real shot at the national championship.(and the Buckeyes)

On Topic: With several open wheel teams from the IRL starting ALMS teams, I wonder if we will see any teams from Champ Car start teams there. I think that a top team like N/H/L could start one without too much trouble.

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

On Topic: With several open wheel teams from the IRL starting ALMS teams, I wonder if we will see any teams from Champ Car start teams there. I think that a top team like N/H/L could start one without too much trouble.

Carl Haas doesn't spend his own money on anything. Plus, between the CC season, a probable Indy 500 run and the Haas-Lanigan-Hulman Busch team, they're not likely to be taking on another series.

[ThePenguin]

Originally Posted by Nedley Mandingo

Carl Haas doesn't spend his own money on anything. Plus, between the CC season, a probable Indy 500 run and the Haas-Lanigan-Hulman Busch team, they're not likely to be taking on another series.

This was just speculation. If you are right and Carl Haas does rely on sponsors for everything, then if he found a sponsor then I don't see anything keeping him form starting a team in the ALMS.

[ThePenguin]

feedmesportscars.com had two interesting articles on their site, one about the possibility of Ganassi coming over to the ALMS with a Toyota backed entry.
http://feedmesportscars.com/node/3038
The other one said that Penske and Audi will be staying in the ALMS for 2008.
http://feedmesportscars.com/node/3029

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Nedley Mandingo

Carl Haas doesn't spend his own money on anything. Plus, between the CC season, a probable Indy 500 run and the Haas-Lanigan-Hulman Busch team, they're not likely to be taking on another series.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;...v=ap&type=lgns

You can cross the Haas-Lanigan thing off the list.

[barumba]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

How?

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely LOVE to see those cars full season - I quite loved them at Le Mans - but colour me skeptical...

I'd have to agree with all of that. They have made a bit of a mess of their F1 team, will probably be owned by an Indian contingent next year. And the company is on very unsteady financial ground (under investigation). If they show up in ALMS or on the continent in a sports car, it will be because they got out of F1. Even then, a bit of a long shot.

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;...v=ap&type=lgns

You can cross the Haas-Lanigan thing off the list.

Wasn't talking about that. Haas, Lanigan and Mary Hulman-George own a Busch team for Kyle Krisiloff.

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

This was just speculation. If you are right and Carl Haas does rely on sponsors for everything, then if he found a sponsor then I don't see anything keeping him form starting a team in the ALMS.

Except that he's not looking for ALMS sponsors. If one came to him and proposed he run an ALMS team on their dime, I'm sure he would ('specially if he could work Lola in somehow). But he's not looking for them any more than he's looking for Grand-Am or World Challenge sponsors.

[Jonerz]

With AJR's year-off coming to a close, can we expect to see him back in the American Le Mans Series in some form?

Chris

[Speed-King]

AJR have extended their deal with Ruby Tuesday for their Grand Am effort for another year. So I don't think they'll go back to ALMS.
Running both series seems just like too much an effort to me. Especially if you consider the luckluster results Tafel had this year, running both series.

[broadrun96]

But AJR seems like a eter built organization and if Porsche and another sponsor wanted I dont think they would think twice about trying both, but I'm doubtful. Would ike to see AJR and Pat Long in a Spyder and see what they can do with it and maybe bring one to LM in the near future.