Thunder Saloons

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by teamwillpower

Would anyone out there know how much slower brands hatch indy is since Graham Hill bend was tightened up? wasnt sure if there was anything else major done to the circuit? We recently got hold of an old Thundersaloon and having looked at the results, I'm interested to know what the times then equate to now (roughly of course)?? From what I can find the front runners were doing 47/48secs.
Thanks

A second and a half? Although maybe slightly less now the resurfacing has been, I believe.

Which car have you got? Wouldn't be a yellow one, would it?

[big andy]

no it s the stars and strips manta .i here it may be coming out in classic thunder saloons ?? this year

[Al Weyman]

And TeamWillPower will be my old mate who owns the car I think ;-)

[teamwillpower]

you think as little as a second and a half or less? Very interesting if it is that little. Hi Al, its actually his son here, and yes we hope to have the manta out sometime this season in classic thunder, but want to get it fully sorted/reliable first.

[BChild]

Slightly off topic but what would it cost to enter a car in the clasic thundersaloon class - ignoring licencing costs etc etc - just event entries - very curious

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by teamwillpower

you think as little as a second and a half or less? Very interesting if it is that little. Hi Al, its actually his son here, and yes we hope to have the manta out sometime this season in classic thunder, but want to get it fully sorted/reliable first.

Hi ya say hello to dad for me and look forward to seeing you guys out. BTW did Francis manage to reshell the Capri after its disasterous first outing at Pembrey?

[Al Weyman]

BChild, it averaged out around £200 for a single header last year.

[Tony_Simpson]

From my records at Brands Hatch:

Rod Birley set a time of 47.24s in his Thunderslaoon Honda Prelude in 1993
Ric Wood set a time of 48.937 in his Formula Saloon (ex-Thundersaloon) Vauxhall Calibra in 2003

I do not know what time Rod set in his Honda Prelude in Formula Saloon guise but i guess mid to low 49seconds.

So i guess about 2 seconds slower now with that data!!!


I think i will be heading along to a few Classic Thunder races if there are some old Thundersaloons and Super Tourers (Autosport i think said 8 of them!) as well as the existing field with the Falcon and Lotus Sunbeam mixture!!

Good times

[GBRM]

There's a couple of races on YouTube from Brands if anyone has a stop-watch!!
I'll try and check some Intermarque, Special Saloon and Tuscan times when home later.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Example 1992 lap-times for the Manta were in the mid 50sec range (best race lap 50.24, Oatway driving).

[BChild]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

BChild, it averaged out around £200 for a single header last year.

Thanks for that

[GBRM]

Tim - we said proper lap times, not Nick Oatway!!
Just found '93 race result times for Intermarque - V8 Aston was 49.66 - only a 5.3 and goodness knows how much - the Manta was 7.5 litres!!

[andy robinson]

was the manta not 383= 6ltrs ??
This really looking foward to this yrs classic thunder & going to be pround to be part of it

[GBRM]

Sorry Andy, I might have been wrong, it was either 7.1 or 8.1 litres, not what it runs now.
I do have a piston from the original engine and all I can say is that it's a 2 valve almost twice the size of s similar 4 valve piston I have of Old Nail (2.6), it's enormous!!
I will try and find my folder or '91 times as I remember a 2 litre Vauxhall Caterham was only just over a second slower than a TVR Tuscan and I'm sure there were mid-40s - heck, my late Dad did the first sub-60 second lap for a TVR in 1965 in an 1800 Grantura, so I'd like to think the Thundersaloons were much faster - I think Mansell's unofficial lap record in '86ish in the Williams was 29 seconds....

[Al Weyman]

Gregor is correct it had a larger Pontiac race engine in it originally not a Chevrolet small block that I believe is in it now, that was stated on the auction sheet when it came up for sale.

[Thundersports]

Gregor I don't think Mansell went that quick to my knowledge the "fastest" unofficial time was a lap in 1985 by Rosberg in the 35s.

[teamwillpower]

I also know that my dad did a 49.00 on the captital radio raceday in 1992 with very very old tyres, and having only had 30mins seat time (sharing drive with don manley). Not of much consequence, but was def capable of quicker than that according to him.

[teamwillpower]

As far as we know the manta went: 5.7, 6.5, 7.1litre. Its now a 6.2 small block chev. But its not as it was with Bonhams. Much modified since then.

[GBRM]

It was a school day and all I can say Mr Lanfranchi and Mr Marshall egged on a certain Mr Mansell - the times were never official and maybe exaggerated but I've certainly never seen anything like it; it was like watching Martin Shancke, Dennis Welch and Will Gollop in the Rally-Cross cars and they only used 2/3rds of the circuit!!
In the late '80s/early '90s the Thundersaloons to watch were the GM Holden, the GM Carlton, Stars & Stripes (on occassion), the RX7 (on occassion) and the off one-off seat of the pants cars (Rod - did the RS Porsche ever run properly - that should have been THE Thundersaloon!!).

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by teamwillpower

I also know that my dad did a 49.00 on the captital radio raceday in 1992 with very very old tyres, and having only had 30mins seat time (sharing drive with don manley). Not of much consequence, but was def capable of quicker than that according to him.

I think I was there that day; the Manta seemed to be going better then than it had in the time before it - two 6th place finishes(?) in a full field.

The Oatway time was much quicker than Manley posted on the same day. By '92 that Manta was a dinosaur, one of the few cars left over from the mid/late 80s Thundersaloons, when it had been near the front off and on (and not very reliable, leading to the frequent changes in engine capacity, I gather). By the early/mid 90s the standard was far higher, and the Manta was a couple of seconds off of the ultimate pace, although still one of the big attractions of the championship.

Only to way know what it'll do now is get it out there!

[R59]

When you think of it, the Manta was still just a Manta, with bigger more adjustable stuff under it, where in the final throws of the series, you had cars like Rod's Prelude, the Donnan Sierra, the Escort "Cosworths" of Morton and Mortlock that were purpose built from the ground up. Not to mention the Merc 190 of Jason Dell, and of course, THE Carlton.

However fast they were, the main thing is they were the attraction. Big angry cars that went fast!

[Al Weyman]

Gregor did I not read somewhere that your dad or maybe someone else reconned the Manta flexed a lot and was probably the reason that it was'nt a better handling car? Hopefully TeamWillPower have sorted this as that will improve the lap times.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Gregor did I not read somewhere that your dad or maybe someone else reconned the Manta flexed a lot and was probably the reason that it was'nt a better handling car? Hopefully TeamWillPower have sorted this as that will improve the lap times.

Could be, the Ecosse cars certainly did and they were far more standard with much smaller engines?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Gregor did I not read somewhere that your dad or maybe someone else reconned the Manta flexed a lot and was probably the reason that it was'nt a better handling car?

Yeah, Dad hated the way the car handled, ge said it was far too soft and flexed massively (the 7 litre Pontiac's torque probably didn't help either!!). When he drove it at Zandvort in '89 (there's a photo in the new book and a clip on YouTube) he said the thing just crabbed down the straights and they ended up retiring from both races.

[vjay48]

I would think the fact that the manta was bullt before the era of weld in cages,im not suprised it flexed, On the subject of Zandvoort, the Thundersaloons only raced once, the manta was retired following a incident with another car.