Thunder Saloons

[Al Weyman]

Weld in cages have been around for years hav'nt they?

[vjay48]

Car was built nearly 25 years ago,at safety devices,who made and sold bolt in cages, weld in cages i think were a few years in the future, i raced a car with bolt in cage,the a posts cracked due to flexing. At this time cages could be fitted with plates on the upright bars which you bolted to a and b posts on the shell. I think this was the start of the move to develop weld in cages.

[MiniMadness]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Yeah, Dad hated the way the car handled, ge said it was far too soft and flexed massively (the 7 litre Pontiac's torque probably didn't help either!!). When he drove it at Zandvort in '89 (there's a photo in the new book and a clip on YouTube) he said the thing just crabbed down the straights and they ended up retiring from both races.

Which book is this ? I've read 'Only here for the beer' and enjoyed reading some of the antics.

[Al Weyman]

Gregor has co wrote a biography on Gerry's life its meant to be very good I am sure he will pop back and tell you where to buy.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by vjay48

I would think the fact that the manta was bullt before the era of weld in cages,im not suprised it flexed, On the subject of Zandvoort, the Thundersaloons only raced once, the manta was retired following a incident with another car.

Do you know what the incident was?

Originally Posted by vjay48

Car was built nearly 25 years ago,at safety devices,who made and sold bolt in cages, weld in cages i think were a few years in the future, i raced a car with bolt in cage,the a posts cracked due to flexing. At this time cages could be fitted with plates on the upright bars which you bolted to a and b posts on the shell. I think this was the start of the move to develop weld in cages.

I can't remember now but it would suprise me if the cage was so flimsy as you'd like to tink Gerry J would know what he was doing (after running DTV; Old Nail, Baby Bertha, the Chevette rally team - he had good experience) unless he was trying something different.

Originally Posted by MiniMadness

Which book is this ? I've read 'Only here for the beer' and enjoyed reading some of the antics.

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Gregor has co wrote a biography on Gerry's life its meant to be very good I am sure he will pop back and tell you where to buy.

I'm not sure what the rules are about posting (and a little off topic) but it is called "Gerry Marshall, his authorised biography - if you search the Haynes website (or google) you'll find it - as to how good it is I'll leave up to others but there is this:- http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123410 (not started by me - I would have spelt the name correctly )

[vjay48]

Gregor,if remember correctly father had a arguement with the honds legend over the same piece of track,i think it broke an upright,these were from a groupc jaguar and i think difficult to get hold of,this started the period of the car not appearing. The Manta was a very heavy car built from a road car,the cage i am sure was ok in its day,the adding stiffness to race cars by welding a cage was in its infancy. After all it was called a roll cage ,not a stiffen the shell cage!

[Tim Wilkinson]

The Manta had a coming together with Jim Mensley's Honda Legend, on the exit of Tarzan on lap 7 and retired with a broken front upright. (credit Rolling Thunder)

I recall having read something about SnS not being very stiff, and thought it had come from Gregor / Gerry, but can't remember for sure.

I got given the new book for Christmas - it looks great, but I haven't had the chance to sit down and really appreciate it, yet. The re-issue of "Only here..." is never too far away - it sits under my mousemat!

[GBRM]

Thanks guys; I take it they didn't start the second race then? I have the practice and reults sheets with the car qualified 5th for race 1 and classified 15th and qualified 3rd for race 2 and classified 16th but I knew they'd had a problem in race 1, I just couldn't remember what from the time.
Think Dad might not even have got to have raced, only practice, probably why he was even more critical of the car than before!!
I also think it was the last time he drove the car as there was a "discussion" about money at the next race at Donington and I think that's when Hugh then took over the driving, plus the V8 Aston was really coming together by then (and Dad was doing Tuscans too), no time for three v8 drives.
As for the cage, was always suprised Gerry J didn't do a better job but then there was probably a reason for it - he had learnt lessons from Big B to Baby B to stiffen the shell with the cage and body - you could lift one corner of Big B up by 4 inches and the rest of the body would just flex and leave the 3 other corners on the ground!!

[vjay48]

the meeting at zandvoort was one race,there was no plan for a second race there were three practice sessions,one was un-timed,the race was stopped and re-started with cars in race order, i dont think the manta appeared again that season,it was entered later but did not appear. I think repairs etc had strained the relationship between owner and the prepairer/team££££££.

[teamwillpower]

Cant be sure on the flex front, but it certainly didnt hamper it's speed too much. In its first two years of competition (87/88) it was very much a match for the 'works' Vauxhall Carlton speed wise(which im sure was vv stiff). It wasnt however blessed with reliability. In 1990 it won the first two races of the season, was third in the third race, and DNF/DNS every other race of the season. I would definitely say that reliability was what really held it back!
On the weight front, dont forget that a standard Manta 400 is only around 960kg due to its lightweight body panels & windows, and the Stars&Stripes has gfibre/kevlar; doors/wings/bonnet/boot/spoilers. obviously it has a heavy chev small block and jag rear end, but its not a particularly heavy car.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Up until 1992 each meeting only had one race, with a driver change. The only exceptions to that (that I know of) were meetings at circuits with an unsuitable pitlane such as Castle Combe.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Up until 1992 each meeting only had one race, with a driver change. The only exceptions to that (that I know of) were meetings at circuits with an unsuitable pitlane such as Castle Combe.

Correct like you I was there for a fair few of them. A bit too much BS on this thread.

[Al Weyman]

A bit too much BS on this thread.

What exactly please enlighten us?

[MiniMadness]

Originally Posted by GBRM

I'm not sure what the rules are about posting (and a little off topic) but it is called "Gerry Marshall, his authorised biography - if you search the Haynes website (or google) you'll find it - as to how good it is I'll leave up to others but there is this:- http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123410 (not started by me - I would have spelt the name correctly )

Thanks for replying Gregor.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by vjay48

the meeting at zandvoort was one race,there was no plan for a second race there were three practice sessions,one was un-timed,the race was stopped and re-started with cars in race order, i dont think the manta appeared again that season,it was entered later but did not appear. I think repairs etc had strained the relationship between owner and the prepairer/team££££££.

Some amateur footage of the Zandvoort race here.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Up until 1992 each meeting only had one race, with a driver change. The only exceptions to that (that I know of) were meetings at circuits with an unsuitable pitlane such as Castle Combe.

That's what attracted us to Thundersaloons, made it seem like a proper endurance race. However I'm sure I remember doing proper driver changes in the two races we did at Combe.

IIRC it started off like you said, but the 89-90 ish races had driver changes in a widened pit lane. Yes I'm sure now, because my Dad's tactic of coming down the pit lane undoing his belts didn't endear him to our friends in the scrutineering team!

Driver changes were fun though, he was much bigger than me and liked sitting further back, so I jumped in, put a cushion on my belly, pulled the belts over me and the mechanics slid the seat forwards until I screamed! God know what the H&S scrutes would say about that today...

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by vjay48

the meeting at zandvoort was one race,there was no plan for a second race there were three practice sessions,one was un-timed,the race was stopped and re-started with cars in race order, i dont think the manta appeared again that season,it was entered later but did not appear. I think repairs etc had strained the relationship between owner and the prepairer/team££££££.

Thanks for that - bit difficult to ascertain when looking at bits of paper from 22 years ago; I will look again when home later and they should make more sense now!!
IIRC there was some issues about ownership of the car at one stage but as said in another post, on it's day it was a match with the Carlton.

[Al Weyman]

I was just watching a bit of YouTube from Cadwell and it looked like the Manta was whopping the Carlton at least for a while.

[R59]

You have to remember that Thundersaloons was the "long game", to finish first, first you had to finish, and knowing how other cars performed over the length of a 75 mile race was the difference between winning and not. It's more a case of "let him go, it'll break, he'll kill the tyres, the second bloke couldn't drive a pointed stick up a cats..."

Look at the Silverstone race when John Cleland returned to the Carlton for a one-off, it rained (quite a bit) then dried. Stewart Morton (Class B Starlet) was partnered by Peter Baldwin. They were running on Hoosiers for the first time properly, and Stewart was blinding in the changeable conditions and the pairing even led through the driver changes, finishing third overall - mostly through calculating and timing everything just right - and being reliable. I seem to remember that the Carlton didn't lead initially, but once in Clelands hands flew!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by R59

You have to remember that Thundersaloons was the "long game", to finish first, first you had to finish, and knowing how other cars performed over the length of a 75 mile race was the difference between winning and not. It's more a case of "let him go, it'll break, he'll kill the tyres, the second bloke couldn't drive a pointed stick up a cats..."

Look at the Silverstone race when John Cleland returned to the Carlton for a one-off, it rained (quite a bit) then dried. Stewart Morton (Class B Starlet) was partnered by Peter Baldwin. They were running on Hoosiers for the first time properly, and Stewart was blinding in the changeable conditions and the pairing even led through the driver changes, finishing third overall - mostly through calculating and timing everything just right - and being reliable. I seem to remember that the Carlton didn't lead initially, but once in Clelands hands flew!

You're absolutely right. We do forget that they were often a race of attrition and regular winners like the Carlton and the Commodore weren't always the fastest on the day.

[cliov6]

Have got a friend who has bought an ex Thunder Saloon car minus engine and box. Found history on car. It is an ex Touring Car. Cannot say make, model or year for various reasons. Would the car be worth more as an ex Thunder Saloon or ex Touring Car?

[big andy]

Originally Posted by cliov6

Have got a friend who has bought an ex Thunder Saloon car minus engine and box. Found history on car. It is an ex Touring Car. Cannot say make, model or year for various reasons. Would the car be worth more as an ex Thunder Saloon or ex Touring Car?

depends.! what it is and the history ?

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by cliov6

Have got a friend who has bought an ex Thunder Saloon car minus engine and box. Found history on car. It is an ex Touring Car. Cannot say make, model or year for various reasons. Would the car be worth more as an ex Thunder Saloon or ex Touring Car?

What is it and what has it achieved? If it was in both series it is either a Sierra or a Rover why the secrecy?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by cliov6

Have got a friend who has bought an ex Thunder Saloon car minus engine and box. Found history on car. It is an ex Touring Car. Cannot say make, model or year for various reasons. Would the car be worth more as an ex Thunder Saloon or ex Touring Car?

I would say that the potential value of the car depends on how famous or successful it was in which category.
However, most old racing cars (unless especially famous) generally don't have a high specific value, unless you can find the one really wealthy person in the world who wants to buy the car (for certain, personal reasons).
As others have said, if you tell us which car it is we may be able to give you more accurate answers...

[Al Weyman]

Not a white wide bodied Seirra that raced in Classic Thunder is it by any chance?