IMSA DPi Discussion

[FormulaFox]

If people think I'm doing nothing but being negative then they've completely missed the point of my posts. I feel sorry for those who feel that way.

All I'm doing is providing information I've heard for the sake of debate. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I have an interpretation of them that I base my side on, but to say I'm always negative because of a few specific things I take issue with is completely and utterly wrong.

I've had plenty of positive things to say, so I can't help but wonder how this idea that I'm always being negative came about. It just plain isn't true. Likewise I can't help but wonder how the times I DO get negative can be so "unwarranted" when I've provided good reason for the concerns I bring up.

[Aces]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

If people think I'm doing nothing but being negative then they've completely missed the point of my posts. I feel sorry for you all.

I don't think you're being negative,you speak your mind and some may not agree with that. What you say isn't negative, not even close compared to other sites I've been on.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Aces

I don't think you're being negative,you speak your mind and some may not agree with that. What you say isn't negative, not even close compared to other sites I've been on.

Oh, I do get negative at times. I can get VERY negative when things bother me enough. How some people have come to the conclusion that I'm constantly negative is what baffles me.

[Accident]

Seems unfair to pick on FF though as we have plenty of negative posters/posts around, but it does seem that a pretty high percentage of FF posts are about how dumb the management is or how bad of a choice switching to whatever class structure is and so on... but at least he usually has some reasons too, so it's not just the "NASCAR ruined this series WEC FOR LIFE" nonsense we have seen. Personally, I find the disputes that include a touch of "I'm an insider guys, trust me" more tedious, but then again I suffered through the dying days of the ALMS forums so, while I certainly don't enjoy it, maybe I've been numbed to the negativity a little more than some.

I agree that it can become quite tedious though. I mean we all know there are problems, and it's not like we only want to put our hands over our ears and pretend everything is fine, but it is a bit silly. In IMSA-related threads its starting to feel somewhat rare to see more than 2 that aren't criticism that offers no solutions, repeated complaining about things that can't/won't change, "NASCAR RUINED EVERYTHING" type comments that add nothing to the discussion, corruption conspiracies, bickering over who has the best insider info, "THIS SERIES IS GARBAGE WITHOUT LMP1, BRING THEM BACK" type comments that are living in a dream world (it's okay to dream, but to use it as a thinly veiled excuse to insult the series/cars/etc is getting very tiresome), and so on.

Sorry though, guess I'm further derailing the thread by complaining about something that won't change.

[jjvincent]

You guys need to remember, FF is on a WT team and has insider info on IMSA. So you might want to think twice about what you say.

[Bcarr6]

I think it's just tiring to see FF attacking the organisers constantly and painting the image of the Motorsport crashing down around us.

People aren't members of this forum for negativity, they are members because they love Motorsport and want to enjoy a light hearted conversation with others who enjoy the sport.

All the negativity and rants make it tedious...

Heck id just like to discuss this interesting new DPi formula, that is the topic of this thread, without it becoming an assault on the IMSA management in every other post


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[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I think it's just tiring to see FF attacking the organisers constantly and painting the image of the Motorsport crashing down around us.

Thing is, I do neither of these things. I take issue with a specific element of the organization, not the organization as a whole, and I have never characterized the situation as anywhere CLOSE to everything crashing down.

People aren't members of this forum for negativity, they are members because they love Motorsport and want to enjoy a light hearted conversation with others who enjoy the sport.

I completely agree, and this is all I have attempted to do here - pointing out potential issues with an idea(in this case, DPi) and how it may be an issue while providing an idea on how to fix/improve the point of concern is not being negative - it is an attempt to bring forth civilized discussion on the topic. Unfortunately, I cannot control the behavior of others who choose to take my efforts in such a poor light and attack me for doing so, thus dragging things into a pit of negativity.

Using DPi as an example since that's the topic of this thread, I've pointed out how it is not necessarily of interest to a wide range of manufacturers due to one simple detail(the bodywork requirement, as most manufacturers do not want to spend the development money on new bodywork), and have pointed out how one simple change could possibly solve this issue(make the bodywork requirement optional and allow teams to align with a manufacturer to get a GT3 engine in the back of their P2 car). Unfortunately SEVERAL people here opted to lock onto my dislike of the aforementioned requirement and completely ignore the change. The ones who DID acknowledge the idea for the change simply dismissed it as a terrible idea without elaborating on why, even after I pointed out how it could be of benefit.

I am not a negative person and have no desire to be, but it seems like nobody ever wants to talk about potentially good ideas when I bring them up.

[Akrapovic]

Can we stop the witch hunt?

On the topic of this $1m fee. Do any other series have this? ELMS, WEC, Blancpain, AsLMS, etc? Or is it only IMSA that do it?

[Bcarr6]

I'd just like to have a conversation about DPi, instead of everything that is round with the organisation as a whole or individual elements within it.

On the topic of this thread, interestingly, Marshall Pruett on MWM last night suggested previously rumoured German/Austrian MFG is active in developing a programme for DPi, highly likely to be in 2018.

He states, similarly to his article on Racer, there is 4 programmes in development.

So Mazda and Cadillac for 2017 as we all expected, the AMG and Honda/HPD in late 2017/early 2018

Nothing massively new there but it does suggest that for now, the Panoz potential programme is a no go


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[Accident]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Can we stop the witch hunt?

On the topic of this $1m fee. Do any other series have this? ELMS, WEC, Blancpain, AsLMS, etc? Or is it only IMSA that do it?

Right, let's stop the FF witch hunt and continue with the IMSA witch hunt.

This was already gone over a few pages back. Other series have similar things in place in other forms that still amount to manufacturers spending money with the series to become "preferred manufacturers" and "special partners" and such... It's just that the stuff with IMSA has been much more public so we all know about it.

I thought I remembered reading that it isn't $1m, that it's something like $300k with a request for another $700k~ for advertising and activation stuff, but that is flexible depending on the volume of the manufacturer?

Was really hoping a Panoz DPi would come around and be a serious effort after what feels like ages of crap programs from Panoz. I'd like to see Legge in a good car to see what she can do... She has been the match of her teammates thus far and has also been the reliable hands in the car (can't remember any times where she crashed it off-hand). Hard to tell exactly where she stands though when she's riding around in the DelterWeng.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Accident

This was already gone over a few pages back. Other series have similar things in place in other forms that still amount to manufacturers spending money with the series to become "preferred manufacturers" and "special partners" and such... It's just that the stuff with IMSA has been much more public so we all know about it.

But the other series did not require it for entry, only to be preferred. If it was not paid they could still enter, but not listed as a special partner.

So my question is - is it required for other series like it is for IMSA? Because we seem to be talking about 2 different things here.

[Coach Ep]

"TBT":

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...to-play-policy

On the subject of DPi/P2:

So far it has been really quite around Dallara [the fourth approved constructor] and I seriously doubt we're gonna see any 'regular WEC P2 spec' car. Might it be just the factory GM designed DPi that they've designed?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

"TBT":

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...to-play-policy

On the subject of DPi/P2:

So far it has been really quite around Dallara [the fourth approved constructor] and I seriously doubt we're gonna see any 'regular WEC P2 spec' car. Might it be just the factory GM designed DPi that they've designed?

Unlikely. The ACO requires them to provide a P2 chassis - it was part of the deal to get selected. So if someone comes by and offers the money for their chassis, they'll have it for them. If nobody does, we may never see it, though.

Don't forget that most of the obvious movement on the matter so far has been on the IMSA side of the pond - we've not seen much indication of who's interested in what for ELMS or WEC.

[hondafan37]

4 Cadillacs DPI for next year.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ca...begin-testing/

WTR will be joined by Action Express Racing with Cadillac DPi machinery next year, with Visit Florida Racing also believed to be campaigning a Dallara-built Cadillac after having evaluated multiple options.

Then for next year:
4 Cadillacs
2 Mazda
2 Riley Gibson (Ben Keating and Starworks)

[carbsmith]

I love how it's still being treated like some sort of deception that the Cadillac DPi will use the same engine family as their top of the line performance car.

Can't help but feel like SoD's entire "evaluation" was mostly for the benefit of the audience rather than something with a serious chance of an alternative outcome.

[TzeiTzei]

So it's gonna be just like this year? With Cadillac DPis instead of Corvette DPs. And then some also-rans.

[chernaudi]

Well, the Cadillac CTS-V is supposed to use the same supercharged 6.2 liter LS/LT V8 as the top spec Corvette (which I think is the Z06). Granted, the Caddy badged DPIs will be making the same compromise as the Corvette GTLM/GTE cars in that they'll be running a NA 5.5 liter LS/LT V8, though the Cadillac DPI spec will come from RCR/ECR as opposed to Corvette Racing and will also make about 120 more BHP.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I love how it's still being treated like some sort of deception that the Cadillac DPi will use the same engine family as their top of the line performance car.

Can't help but feel like SoD's entire "evaluation" was mostly for the benefit of the audience rather than something with a serious chance of an alternative outcome.

There was a serious chance of it being a different manufacture up until a few weeks ago.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I love how it's still being treated like some sort of deception that the Cadillac DPi will use the same engine family as their top of the line performance car.

I think that comes from the series saying when the whole formula came about that a manufacturer would use their GT3 motor, and if they didn't have one, then another engine would be permitted.

[MaskedRacer]

Hmm maybe Jerome Bleekomolen is a early favorite to be the overall pole sitter at the 2017 Daytona 24?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, the Cadillac CTS-V is supposed to use the same supercharged 6.2 liter LS/LT V8 as the top spec Corvette (which I think is the Z06). Granted, the Caddy badged DPIs will be making the same compromise as the Corvette GTLM/GTE cars in that they'll be running a NA 5.5 liter LS/LT V8, though the Cadillac DPI spec will come from RCR/ECR as opposed to Corvette Racing and will also make about 120 more BHP.

Do we know if they are just carrying over the current v8 from the DP's, or using the gtlm Corvette motor, or if it is a new design?

[Matt]

Carryover from the DP.

There was an MP article a few months back that mentioned it.

I am very happy about that, because that engine sounds SO good.

[TF110]

I expect one team using the Caddy to be black like those ATS-V's in PWC! Have a feeling they'll run the tables and Mazda and co. will be lucky to score a podium. It'll be another bop talking point and I wonder if more teams will be 'vocal' about it in the way these GTD teams are if one car runs away. I sure hope not.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

I expect one team using the Caddy to be black like those ATS-V's in PWC! Have a feeling they'll run the tables and Mazda and co. will be lucky to score a podium. It'll be another bop talking point and I wonder if more teams will be 'vocal' about it in the way these GTD teams are if one car runs away. I sure hope not.

Since Mazda has switched back to petrol they have been VERY fast. Speed is not an issue at this point for Mazda, nor will it be for any of the P cars.
As to the other, it belongs in a different thread.





L.P.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Since Mazda has switched back to petrol they have been VERY fast. Speed (on track) is not an issue at this point for Mazda, nor will it be for any of the P cars.

Mazda's biggest hurdle has been tying their own shoes together at times, and it always seems like small prep or tool misplacement that catches them. Hate to be down as they are a very fan friendly team and even with the diesel I always wanted them to do well. Maybe things will turn around and each thing that's tripped them up is remembered and they get closer to the win.