Audi LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

I doubt Porsche leaves just because Audi did. The wec is a win win for them. Just because Audi was forced to quit doesn't mean Porsche will be as well. No one associates Porsche with cheating diesel tech. Audi running a diesel lmp looks really bad in the light of the scandal. I think it's a combo of both saving face and cutting costs/saving money. I thought Porsche was basically standing or could stand on it's own and it's been like that for years now.

[chernaudi]

Believe me, Porsche will probably be done with the WEC in a year or two depending on how the 2018 regs work, and I'm not entirely sure that Toyota will bother sticking around once they win LM.

Porsche are part of VAG, which has shown to be tempted to kill off almost any factory program with dieselgate being part of the "public" reason (the real reasons are IMO a lot more political and ROI driven than that), and Toyota have killed their LM programs and other motorsports activities on a whim before. And I don't believe it when guys from Audi Sport like Allan McNish say that the Audi pull out isn't the beginning of the end of the LMP1 class as we've come to know it. Neither Toyota or Porsche have the brand activation or promotional abilities that Audi have put forth, and it's that which I feel will really hurt the ACO as far as the WEC and LM are concerned.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And by the way, I'm gonna give this as a fair warning and advice: Don't like my posts, thoughts or opinions? Don't read them, don't give them any regards.

I have always enjoyed your posts. I don't want to ignore your posts. However, no disrespect intended and apologies for a bad analogy.... Most everything that is post Audi announcement (here and Facebook) has been like listening in on a suicide hotline.

My suggestion is to just take a break from all of this. Or... if you are truly that down on current organized motorsports do what I do when I feel the same which is to fall back to amateur level racing to feel that true spirit of competition again. At least once a year I crew for a 24hr lemons race (an awesome experience on many levels... especially when we win) as well as try to attend and spectate at other non-pro racing events. I can't let my interest in motorsports rely upon pro series that can be really screwed up.

Richard

[TF110]

I felt bad when Toyota pulled out of F1. Especially knowing that the TF110 was going to be a really good car with all the resources put into it. But life goes on, as does motorsport. It may be a while, but Audi will rebound and we'll see them in sportscar racing. They still have the GT3 program, and that may lead to some type of involvement in LM if the GT convergence happens. And if they still are doing DTM, there's hope that class 1 will have Audi. So all is not lost.

[chernaudi]

And I don't remember how many times I've said that if you like what you see now, appreciate it now, because it's probably not going to last and will be gone before you know it.

I already have rose tinted glasses about LMP900 and pre-2014 LMP1, because I at least got to experience that as a fan. I was too young to experience IMSA GTP and Group C and most of the original GT1 era. In addition to having the IMO misfortune to be born in 1986, we didn't get satellite TV for my older brother until circa 1995 and for the rest of the house until about 1998. And I didn't even get my first personal computer until 2005 after I got out of high school. In a way, I feel like I was born at least a decade too late.

But as I did say in opening here, appreciate what you have if you like it, because it won't last forever.

[Acid09]

VW is hitting the panic button all across the board, their WRC efforts are being terminated as well.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by Acid09

VW is hitting the panic button all across the board, their WRC efforts are being terminated as well.

Panic or "overhaul"?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ger...-idUKKBN12X2ED

[bobec]

Originally Posted by TF110

It may be a while, but Audi will rebound and we'll see them in sportscar racing.

I'm seriously starting to doubt we will see again an Lmp1-like effort from Audi that involves an ICE.

[chernaudi]

Ironically, Audi and Porsche (yes, Porsche, the big division of VAG that along with Bentley and Lamborghini should be least directly effected by dieselgate) will seem to be the most "punished" by this as far as being browbeaten into accepting cost cuts, in spite of Audi and Porsche combined making most of VAG's profits.

Either this is VAG shooting themselves in the foot by reducing costs with the aim of boosting profits overall, or Muller wants Audi and Porsche to engage in "profit sharing" with less profitable divisions of Volkswagen Group, be it finances or technology.

[bhtooefr]

Although Porsche is somewhat affected with the 3.0 V6 TDIs, which were even sold in the US... But, their "browbeating" seems to be confined to running two cars instead of three in the WEC.

Conversely, Audi was representing the TDI brand for the entire Volkswagen group, and their engineers developed the cheat software that was later used in 2.0 and 3.0 TDIs. So, the R18 needed to stop racing ASAP, and Audi needed to be punished. And, had Porsche not been in LMP1, I suspect that 2017 or 2018 would've seen a new gasoline R18 debut... but Porsche is in LMP1.

[chernaudi]

I think that you need to read the Reuters article again--Porsche are also under the same pressures, in spite of having hardly anything to do with the whole dieselgate saga. Why? Because, like Audi, Porsche are the biggest profit maker for VAG.

And even if Audi engineers were the one's who designed the software, VAG itself is the leading culprit IMO, since they're the one's who signed off on it and spread it across the whole group. And, above all else, seemingly showed no opposition to it.

Not to mention that VAG are the only one's to get caught so far, and IMO, they're being made an example of. Especially when the whole GM ignition switch deal actually killed at least 50 people.

[chernaudi]

And it wouldn't surprise me if Audi find a way to lose these last two races, two.

[billy bleach]

Have I been living under a rock or have Audi in the supreamist piece of irony just started using their LeMans succcess in their TV Ads?!

[Artur]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota operates with about quarter their f1 budget. That's from Vasselon, so it's around $75 million if that's the case. Even with halving Audi's budget, they would still have more to work with than Toyota. The limit on body kits may help with costs. But their biggest hurdle is the diesel and multiple ers's.

Toyoya and Honda f1 budgets were around 450 m. Also, you wanna believe in the 250m for audi just to make toyota's effort look better, isn't?! German already posted estimates of VW spending and we could estimate lmp1 total to be around 300m, so 150m for audi and porsche, each. All in all, f1 will draw more interest next year while wec will get even more in the shadows...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Artur

Toyoya and Honda f1 budgets were around 450 m. Also, you wanna believe in the 250m for audi just to make toyota's effort look better, isn't?! German already posted estimates of VW spending and we could estimate lmp1 total to be around 300m, so 150m for audi and porsche, each. All in all, f1 will draw more interest next year while wec will get even more in the shadows...

Your information is different to everything else that has been talked about here. Toyota's budget is in the 7 figures that much is known. Numerous outlets say the same thing. And numerous outlets report Audi above $200 million. How is that trying to make Toyota's effort look better?

[CyberMotor]

With Audi gone, Porsche can start racking up numbers for the history books. Good for the long-term brand appeal. I don't see why they would even consider leaving now.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And I don't remember how many times I've said that if you like what you see now, appreciate it now, because it's probably not going to last and will be gone before you know it.

That's the reason I like watching testing before an event while shooting as many photos as possible. I've seen cars/teams not make it through testing and practice.

Saw the dominant Nissan GTP team show up leading the world at Road Atlanta in 1992 and then leave with two destroyed cars and the end of their dominance. Pfff!

I agree, appreciate what you see now whenever you can because nothing is permanent.

[Acid09]

Ulrich steps down at the end of the season.

Crazy, I've been watching motorsports for 18+ years and I`ve never witnessed another Audi head of motorsports...what a career.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/u...t-end-of-year/

Audi also starting to admit that there will be substantial staff cutbacks in the motorsports department.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Ulrich steps down at the end of the season.

Crazy, I've been watching motorsports for 18+ years and I`ve never witnessed another Audi head of motorsports...what a career.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/u...t-end-of-year/



Audi also starting to admit that there will be substantial staff cutbacks in the motorsports department.

A group of good people. No doubt many will go to Sauber most will be sought after I am sure.

[BSchneiderFan]

Jorg Zander already confirmed at Sauber: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...uber-from-audi

Belongs on the F1 forum, really, but I'm expecting Sauber to make big steps forward next year, UNLESS the year-old engine hobbles them.

[chernaudi]

Dr. Ullrich did say that no staff will be let go from Audi unless they want to leave. However, he did make it clear that some won't be working for Audi Sport beyond 2017, at least not directly. Those who will be cut will be offered transfers to the Audi road car or R&D divisions, or other VAG motorsports programs, such as Audi Sport Customer Racing (separate from main Audi Sport) or Bentley's customer program.

This does put doubt in my mind of Audi coming back into sportscar racing anytime soon, that's unless they send a ton of the people to be cut from Audi Sport proper to the R&D division where they can work first hand on hybrid systems and hydrogen fuel cells, or also even the Audi E-Gas bio gasoline and bio diesel fuels.

[chernaudi]

Also, there's no denying that Dieter Gass has big shoes to fill at Audi Sport with Dr. Ullrich stepping down as the acting head of Audi Sport, and retiring completely at the end of the 2017 racing season. I can't name a more successful or longer tenured motorsports executive for a car manufacturer.

I think that only Luca di Montezemolo comes close, but though he was at Ferrari longer, Ferrari (especially in F1) has had way more ups and downs than Audi have had, even in the span of time from 1999-2017. And Montezemolo didn't resign from Ferrari entirely on his own accord, either.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Also, there's no denying that Dieter Gass has big shoes to fill at Audi Sport with Dr. Ullrich stepping down as the acting head of Audi Sport, and retiring completely at the end of the 2017 racing season. I can't name a more successful or longer tenured motorsports executive for a car manufacturer.

I think that only Luca di Montezemolo comes close, but though he was at Ferrari longer, Ferrari (especially in F1) has had way more ups and downs than Audi have had, even in the span of time from 1999-2017. And Montezemolo didn't resign from Ferrari entirely on his own accord, either.

Norbert Singer - He has played a key role in every one of Porsche’s 16 overall race victories between 1970 and 1998 at the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

[Starfish Primer]

Cesare Fiorio spent 25 years as Lancia top manager. After Lancia he moved to Alfa Romeo and Ferrari in the fiat group.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Also, there's no denying that Dieter Gass has big shoes to fill at Audi Sport with Dr. Ullrich stepping down as the acting head of Audi Sport, and retiring completely at the end of the 2017 racing season. I can't name a more successful or longer tenured motorsports executive for a car manufacturer.

I think that only Luca di Montezemolo comes close, but though he was at Ferrari longer, Ferrari (especially in F1) has had way more ups and downs than Audi have had, even in the span of time from 1999-2017. And Montezemolo didn't resign from Ferrari entirely on his own accord, either.

Jean Todt for Peugeot?
Won the Group B Rally championship with the 205 Turbo 16, The Dakar Rally with the 205 and 405 Turbo 16, won Pikes-Peak with the same cars and finally ended up winning Le Mans twice with the Peugeot 905 before switching to Ferrari in F1 and being one of the three key people behind Ferraris return to dominance.