The merged Merger thread (again !!)

[indycool]

Agreed, climb......I don't see the IRL stopping having races waiting for CC to come around, either.

[luke]

I don't want to get my hopes up but there has been so much talk by everyone lately much more then the rumored brought up times by press in the past. The latest is Patrick Carpentier wants there to be a merge.

And I agree Ronbo with your last post.

[luke]

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_s...me=auto_racing

Interesting article

Both the Indy Racing League and Champ Car World Series will die if the two open-wheeled racing circuits can't settle their differences and merge into one, driver Sebastien Bourdais said Monday.

"I think it's not a matter of trying to make it happen," Bourdais, the two-time defending Champ Car champion said during a telephone conference call. "It's do it or die.

"Both series are struggling so bad financially. The teams can't put programs together and the drivers aren't getting paid any more. I think it's very straightforward. Either we succeed at this unification or we all are going to run out of jobs very soon."

Canada's Paul Tracy, who drives for Forsythe Championship Racing, said merging the rival factions would help give open-wheeled racing the money and corporate sponsors needed to challenge NASCAR.

[rustyfan]

Thanks for the heads-up Luke - interesting, and very straight-forward, comments from Bourdais there.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by climb

Someone wil probably find my posts a bit annoying, but I repeat, Ronbo may get a very big surprise in the near future ...

Well, If you know something, please do tell!
I won't tell anyone!
Nobody here except me, and my mouse!

[Seoigh]

Do you REALLY feel that NASCAR fans are the target market? Back when N. American open wheel was world class, it seemed to appeal to those who also appreciated F1.

hmmm

let's see - F1 seem to be doing their best to alienate their spectators, teams, and manufacturers, Champ Car now have extensive exposure outside their home market...and IRL can bring the Indianapolis race back into worldwide prominence with a merger...sooo...the mind races at the potential...they MUST see it.

[indycool]

Oh, I think they almost all see it,on both sides. The sorting out is how to do it. KK has said the worst thing that can happen is to do it wrong so it gets split again. TG has said similar things. IMO, that is going to take a lot more time than some here are allowing and it'd surprise me a great deal if adecision on it was imminent....or even close.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by indycool

IMO, that is going to take a lot more time than some here are allowing and it'd surprise me a great deal if adecision on it was imminent....or even close.

In a perfect world.

Time is a luxury.

[climb]

The problem is not catching up with Nascar, for now, they're too far ahead; just surviving and relaunching open-wheel in the States is more than enough to me

[rustyfan]

To be honest I think focusing on trying to "beat" NASCAR would be the completely wrong way to go. A unified open-wheel championship should focus on its own game to produce the best show possible and promote the hell out of its stars. Can you, for example, say Patrick vs. Legge? I bet quite a few PR-reps would love to get a shot at promoting that catf.. err... duel

If a unified open-wheel series sees a stable field of 25-30 cars, produces good, solid races (F-1-wannabe parades should be avoided at all costs) and takes care of its fans (let's try to avoid huge PR-fiascos like Texas and Fontana), it should be able to carve out a very successful place of its own in the North-American racing landscape.

And really, what is success anyway? Is it being able to pull in good crowds, have a healthy number of cars and at the end of a year have made some money, or is "beating" NASCAR the only thing that counts?

[climb]

Couldn't agree more rusty

[Seoigh]

HEAR HEAR!

It CAN'T be NASCAR sans fenders

[indycool]

Well said, rusty......

[luke]

Yes I agree as well with your post rusty.

Most NASCAR fans are normal people who know nothing about other racing. For example they don't know who Ayrton Senna was. Its the general public of America.
Lets face it if Champ Car and the Indy Racing League were to unify basically all the fans from both sides would be fans of the new unifyied series. There would be the other fans who were old fans who would come back or the casual motorsport fan attracted with much more interest, and then there would be the people who were fanatics of Champ Car who hated the IRL and fanatic IRL fans who hated Champ Car that wouldn't support a merge. But the majourity would support a merge. Obviously we would have the secret weapon that's bigger then what even NASCAR could ever have which is the Indy 500, then there would be Danica Patrick and Kathrine Legge, bringing in all the media, what a battle that would be. Two competitive women who could win the Indy 500 battle it out as friends against 31 other big names.
I just hope before this decade is over that we have a merge I would like to have said to someone I saw an actual proper race with just the one series.

[climb]

You're basically right luke, even if I dare say that most F1 fans don't know as well who Dale Earnhardt was.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by luke

Most NASCAR fans are normal people who know nothing about other racing. For example they don't know who Ayrton Senna was. Its the general public of America.

Originally Posted by climb

You're basically right luke, even if I dare say that most F1 fans don't know as well who Dale Earnhardt was.

Ironically enough Dale Earnhardt knew who Ayrton Senna was and had a lot of respect for him, and Earnhardt paid tribute to Senna during the victory lane interview after winning the Winston Cup race at Talladega that same May 1st, 1994.

While veering a bit off-topic I just thought I'd mention this little tidbit that probably not too many know about

[mountainstar]

With all this merger talk going around and how both series are suffering financially(so some say), one only has to look back 10 years before the split to see a healthy series that had good drivers, crowds, sponsors, etc. I think before there is any merger talk, the irl people need to answer to why the split happened and what exactly did it accomplish? Because if a merger happens, we will be back together again with pretty much the same tracks and teams except we now exist in a financially weak state facing the nascar machine.

For me to accept a merger, there will need to be an apology for all the unneccesary turmoil of the past ten years.

I don't want to speak for the IRL except to say St.Pete certainly was not a success, but champcar does need to be different from the Nascar product. I know plenty of people who have fallen out of love with nascar and it's corporate blandness. I've been to races all around the world and from all different racing genres and the Denver GP champcar race was probably the most enjoyable overall I've ever been to. Champcar is on to a good thing with street festivals rather than the boring oval tracks(most of which are depressing dumps). There is nothing worse than sitting out in some concrete stadium(talledega for instance) in the blazing sun watching cars punch holes in the air while going around in circles with the foot flat to the floor.

[Dutton]

I presume you mean an apology from "the IRL" for the turmoil? Wouldn't this kind of thing just sow the seeds for simmering resentment?

I would've thought that the best approach that can be taken is to just let it all flow under the bridge, never to be seen again. Have all energies focus on the future, rather than looking to hammer a sign of guilt on one side or the other. After all, were a merger to occur, each side would be acknowledging that it needs the other as much as the other needs it: therefore, each would be acknowledging that neither has done a good enough job on its own.

Thus, it would surely be in each others' interests to leave egos, ergo the blame game, forever at the door.

[climb]

mountainstar; please let me say that I respect your views, but they are nothing but a personal opinion.

Firstly I found "unnecessary" (to say the sleast) an apology: people governing CART ten years ago are no more in CC so where should these excuses be addressed?

Second, when a turmoil comes along and a scission happens, it's never all down on one sole of the two contenders, andn CART's responsibilites on what happened have often been discussed

Third, you underline the spectacle of street racing in CC as opponed to oval boring races, once again it's your personal point of view: looking at the last decade, I just wonder where would the American open wheel racing be if there wasn't Indy500.
Let's justremember what happened in y2k, in the first CART event after Indy.
The race was advertised announcing the presence of "indy500 winner JP Montoya"

[Dutton]

However, the Indy 500, IMHO, is seen as an event in itself that trascends being part of a particular series.

So it isn't like introducing him as the Indy 500 winner was introducing the IRL, if you get my drift, but rather that he was the winner of a distinct "happening" as opposed to a round of a particular championship.

P.S. - I presume the reference to "street" racing is encompassing road racing too (i.e. all non-oval)?

[climb]

Originally Posted by Dutton

...So it isn't like introducing him as the Indy 500 winner was introducing the IRL, if you get my drift, but rather that he was the winner of a distinct "happening" as opposed to a round of a particular championship.

...

Of course dutton, but it means that Indy500 in an essential component of any imaginable healthy and wealthy open-wheel racing in the States; It goes to show that pretending "there's nothing sacred about Indy" (CART first post-split theorema) brought a lot of strategy mistakes, and that the IRL side wouldn't be the only one to apologize for the ast decade's misfortunes.

[Dutton]

Well, for sure, the 500 would have to be there.

I quite agree regarding the both sides being guilty of things (I only understand the essentials to the escapade, but I think it is fair to say in such things that it is never one side solely to blame).

I don't see how there can be any other viable option other than just letting the past be the past, and looking forward together.

[climb]

Originally Posted by Dutton

..

I don't see how there can be any other viable option other than just letting the past be the past, and looking forward together.

Agree 100%

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Champcar is on to a good thing with street festivals rather than the boring oval tracks (most of which are depressing dumps).

If bringing in the $$$ from on-site spectators is all that matters, then yes. If attracting new fans and a TV-audience is important as well, then no.

Funny you should call ovals "concrete stadiums", when that is exactly what most street circuits are as well; grey, soulless concrete jungles.

[luke]

Mountainstar I agree there should be an apolgy but it ain gonna happen. For a start Tony George views Champ Car as the break a way series, secondly I was amazed by how much on the St.Pete broadcast they include Champ Car history. The IRL fans at trackforum do it, including basically the Champ Car days when it was known as Indycar as IRL history just because it was called Indy car.
I think if there happens to be a merge there will be no clear winner simply down to what happend in 1996. No one will want to admit defeat if they are wrong. Maybe this is for the best as we know deep down who is wrong but lets remember OWRS and the IRL actually wish to get along compared to when it was CART which is of in my opinion after everyone who left for the IRL.