[BTCC] Silverstone National, 23/24 September, Rds. 25/26/27

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Chilton looked like he was trying to hold Sutton up to me.

In the words of Charlie Cox, it's like holding off the Terminator with a water pistol

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by redshoes

In the words of Charlie Cox, it's like holding off the Terminator with a water pistol

And from the same lap of the same race (Snetterton 1999), if Morgan had t-boned another car by coming back on track after he went off in race three: ‘IT’S A GOAL!’

[JDMROB]

That’s what 2 world class drivers at the top of their game with professional race engineers do against a bunch of amateur teams/drivers. The difference was unbelievably noticeable there.

Hill was unlucky however, although the car would have failed with or without a safety car that wasn’t needed.

Best race of the season though, I enjoyed that.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by JDMROB

That’s what 2 world class drivers at the top of their game with professional race engineers do

As much as some might want to dismiss it as being a fix, or that other drivers just got out of their way - the truth is that we have just seen two drives of the highest level in Touring Cars. Possibly amongst the best drives ever in BTCC history in terms of how much quality was on show from Sutton and Ingram.

You could pass it off as boring if you focus too much on the impact for a championship battle - or just watch the race in isolation and appreciate that what Sutton is doing is something special. It puts him up with the greatest of BTCC drivers in history. And for Ingram to be almost matching him shows how lucky we are to have both of the on the grid competing with each other at the same time.

I think it shows in that if you were to speak to either Sutton or Ingram, they would show a lot of respect for each other and the talent on display. They appreciate how hard each other works, and the dedication and skill required to put in the results they both do regularly. Maybe something that other drivers could learn a lot from?

[Mike Harte]

In answer to the question about why other drivers let Sutton and Ingram through without too much opposition, you also need to consider that the drivers that did let them through all realise that they are not in contention for the championship whilst those two are, and that by trying to keep them behind, it may well also end up compromising their own race.

Those two were coming through and to every one from the drivers to their engineers in the garages, they will know that they were quicker than pretty well everyone else, and it doesn't pay to hinder them. And I am speaking from experience, even though it was an awfully long time ago.


I would also like to add that that was an absolutely thrilling race, and hopefully everyone enjoyed watching it.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As much as some might want to dismiss it as being a fix, or that other drivers just got out of their way - the truth is that we have just seen two drives of the highest level in Touring Cars. Possibly amongst the best drives ever in BTCC history in terms of how much quality was on show from Sutton and Ingram.

You could pass it off as boring if you focus too much on the impact for a championship battle - or just watch the race in isolation and appreciate that what Sutton is doing is something special. It puts him up with the greatest of BTCC drivers in history. And for Ingram to be almost matching him shows how lucky we are to have both of the on the grid competing with each other at the same time.

I think it shows in that if you were to speak to either Sutton or Ingram, they would show a lot of respect for each other and the talent on display. They appreciate how hard each other works, and the dedication and skill required to put in the results they both do regularly. Maybe something that other drivers could learn a lot from?

100% this. I'd like to think that in the future there'll be people who'll be watching some highlights from Sutton/Ingram/Turkington era thinking 'it must've been a special time' and it's cool to think we're experiencing it live. Just the same way as I was getting passionate about BTCC watching videos from the Super Touring era that I cannot remember but similarly thinking how great it was.
And honestly I feel nothing but the pity for people thinking today's race was anti-climactic. Especially as - even if Sutton is really dominating this year - it's nowhere near the F1 level. Perhaps in the future people will look back thinking greatly of Vettel's, Hamilton's, Verstappen's dominances but F1's dominance (at least in my eyes) lacks this kind of crazy heroics. It's just the best driver of the moment in the absolutely best machinery leading from start to finish or passing others with help of DRS. In the BTCC we much more often experience races like today where there's drama, lots of crazy passing moves and tears of joy at the end. That's why BTCC is a lot more interesting to me. That's of course my view, probably lots others would disagree but hey, that's how it is.

[CarfanLUFC]

looked to me in that first lap incident that held up Ingram that Sutton ran into the back of him, surprised more wasn't made of that.

Great drive by Sutton though, got some luck but made it count.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

looked to me in that first lap incident that held up Ingram that Sutton ran into the back of him, surprised more wasn't made of that.

Great drive by Sutton though, got some luck but made it count.

I think that was because Ingram, trying to avoid the mayhem going on around him, then slowed significantly and Sutton was so close behind that he he gave him a slight nudge in the rear. It was a consequence of what Ingram had to do, and not a deliberate push to pass. And not uncommon on the first or very early laps of a race.

In answer to the query about the safety car and why it was deployed, it was because there a fairly substantial piece of bodywork right on the racing line which could have caused significant damage to another car if it hit it. And with the lap so short, it would have been to dangerous for the marshals to remove it just under yellow flags. It was a safety issue, not anyone's evil plot to bunch up the cars even though that is what happened.

[AnnoyedMoose]

The Ingram incident was caused by Butel who got a 3 place grid penalty which the commentators don't seem to have realised with their comment at the start of the 3rd race.

[thlbtcc]

Apologies for the ignorance, is there any way of looking at speed traps for the second and third races today, please?

Sent from my A063 using Tapatalk

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Apologies for the ignorance, is there any way of looking at speed traps for the second and third races today, please?
k

https://www.tsl-timing.com/event/233803
They will be in the PDF Book. Give it a while to be updated for R3

[Matt K]

Wonder what's going to happen with Turkington's investigation. Shame if he was excluded after crossing the finish line first, that's never nice. If this was something potentially punishable with exclusion, drive-through, etc, couldn't they hand the penalty while the race was still ongoing, I wonder?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Wonder what's going to happen with Turkington's investigation. Shame if he was excluded after crossing the finish line first, that's never nice. If this was something potentially punishable with exclusion, drive-through, etc, couldn't they hand the penalty while the race was still ongoing, I wonder?

It was mentioned that they were investigating a potential technical infringement; possibly they need to see the car and/or Turkington and/or the team to resolve the matter. Unfortunately, sometimes these things cannot be done during the race.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It was mentioned that they were investigating a potential technical infringement; possibly they need to see the car and/or Turkington and/or the team to resolve the matter. Unfortunately, sometimes these things cannot be done during the race.

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying this!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying this!

Nothing has been published by the Stewards so far about this, so it is possible that all has been resolved. Time will tell.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Nothing has been published by the Stewards so far about this, so it is possible that all has been resolved. Time will tell.

Obviously this is more evidence of favouritism towards Sutton. If they exclude Turkington, then the gap between Sutton and Ingram closes.

[Evantra]

Incredible how far ahead Sutton, Ingram and Hill are from the rest of the field. Seems like their starting position is irrelevant, unless weather dramatically interrupts play they’re going to be on the podium. Deservedly so, but it definitely feels like another few names are needed up there, especially with rumours of Turkington retiring.

[Spanner monkey]

Think the DRS on Ash's car was broken... Took ages to get past Robow. The team will have to look at that before Brands so he can win back the title.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Spanner monkey

Think the DRS on Ash's car was broken... Took ages to get past Robow. The team will have to look at that before Brands so he can win back the title.

Ash Sutton said: “Ultimately, [Rowbottom] didn’t need to give up a podium so we raced for it instead. Dan helped me in qualifying this weekend and we’ve got enough of a margin now to not need favours. I’m more than happy to race for it.

“I had more hybrid than Dan towards the end and I tried a move at Brooklands and it paid off.

“The aim is to get some points in race one at Brands Hatch and then plan the rest of the day, but we have a 45-point margin for the lead so I can’t ask for much more than that.”

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Spanner monkey

Think the DRS on Ash's car was broken... Took ages to get past Robow. The team will have to look at that before Brands so he can win back the title.

You are not seriously suggestions the NAPA team
And Robow in particular are not playing an impressive team game? Robow threw away a shoot out place to keep Sutton in and then it looks like let him past in race 3 when it was safe to do so. unlike other teams that have spent the season crashing into each other!

[mick bennett]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

You are not seriously suggestions the NAPA team
And Robow in particular are not playing an impressive team game? Robow threw away a shoot out place to keep Sutton in and then it looks like let him past in race 3 when it was safe to do so. unlike other teams that have spent the season crashing into each other!

Totally agree , the only team that is really proffesional .

[Mike Harte]

Something that I have admired about Sutton ever since he came to prominence in the BTCC - I must admit that I hadn't noticed him while he was in the TOCA support series - is that he appears to be able to build a whole team around him; and I don't mean just the engineers, but the other drivers in the team as well. This is helped by the fact that he is very obviously an extremely sociable fellow and is almost universally liked up and down the pit lane.

It also helps massively that he is an extremely talented driver; his record stands for itself. He doesn't come across as a prima donna, and I think that his fellow team drivers appreciate that he is, in reality, there number one driver at this time. It therefore makes sense, at this critical time in the championship, that as they are not anywhere near in contention, that they give him support.

And it seems as though he doesn't abuse that position; he said that the reason that he didn't pass Rowbottom for quite a while was because he went on the radio to the team to say, "let's race". And I think that that attitude plays huge dividends within a team.

Unfortunately for Ingram, not all his team mates play the team game, although he did say that he appreciated Pearson for making it easy to pass.

Most of the teams are made up of individual drivers, out for themselves, no matter how chummy they might seem. I don't believe that is the case within the NAPA team, and they are reaping the benefits, and I am sure that the boss shows his gratitude.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Unfortunately for Ingram, not all his team mates play the team game, although he did say that he appreciated Pearson for making it easy to pass.

His other two teammates are in fact being very helpful to Ingram by letting him have all the points-scoring positions to himself!

Not sure where all the Chilton comments are stemming from today, certainly in recent rounds I don’t think he’s been much near Ingram at all? And obviously Pearson gave up his maiden podium for him.

[thetool]

In terms of championship standings for the top 10 going into the final meeting, this has to be one of the least exciting the BTCC has ever had?

398, 353, 330, 293, 237, 220, 198, 187, 182, 172.

It would be a major shock for there to be any change amongst the top 4, the gap between 4th and the rest is almost unassailable and then even 5th-10th isn't that tightly bunched.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by thetool

In terms of championship standings for the top 10 going into the final meeting, this has to be one of the least exciting the BTCC has ever had?

398, 353, 330, 293, 237, 220, 198, 187, 182, 172.

It would be a major shock for there to be any change amongst the top 4, the gap between 4th and the rest is almost unassailable and then even 5th-10th isn't that tightly bunched.

All eyes on the JST then!