|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
17 Dec 2009, 22:35 (Ref:2601627) | #101 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
OK...
The ALMS is the most important Le Mans race type series, and anything that comes to put an end on it has to stop, or else, we return to the IMSA GTP times... or something of our own, like we make with Nascar, or Indy, or.... whatever. The fact is that you on that side of the Atlantic don't like to be just a part of something that isn't all yours. |
||
|
17 Dec 2009, 22:38 (Ref:2601630) | #102 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
No, that isn't the point. The interests and growth of the Genre as a whole should be looked at, not just a few influential loud parties (Audi and Peugeot). The ALMS, and LMS should be viewed as the base to build upon. The place where the entries for LM come from. You make these series attractive for manufacturers to enter and strengthen them, then you consider how to leverage that. It isn't take your butt out of my land, this has the capability to be one of the final straws that broke the ALMS camel's back. If your dead, you can't kick anyone off your land.
|
||
|
17 Dec 2009, 22:56 (Ref:2601641) | #103 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
What a load of crap!! L.P. |
|||
__________________
Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
17 Dec 2009, 23:19 (Ref:2601654) | #104 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
My point precisely!
I've heard the same bull years ago with the creation of the LMS! Make the ALMS accessible for privateers and forgot that idea of having an all professional racing with a bunch of works teams on it. The problem is that with an international series, the manufactures will prefer to rave on it full season and not in the ALMS, probably may i underline. And that is really getting to your nerves... Here in Europe we had years of privateer racing only, and we have a lot of entrants year after year... And we are not a bit concerned with LMIC. Last edited by LeMans.pt; 17 Dec 2009 at 23:27. |
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 00:32 (Ref:2601672) | #105 | |||||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
|
18 Dec 2009, 01:38 (Ref:2601695) | #106 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
I see ALMS fans, understandably, wanting North American manufactuer's/importers such as Acura, GM, BMW etc., plus European based manufactuer's like Audi and Peugeot, the best privateers, drivers, a large calender of high profile races, live TV coverage on both sides of the Atlantic etc. Meanwhile over in Europe we have to settle for a quaint series know as the LMS, large grids, but lacking the quality, media profile, and pretty much everything that makes Le Mans the event it is. Then there's Asia, which until this year wasn't even a factor, disgraceful when you consider the Le Mans heritage in that part of the world. |
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 01:47 (Ref:2601701) | #107 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
I have no issues with having what Europe has, but the current business structure of the series makes that impossible. Perhaps the series will morph to the point that is possible, or perhaps a rebirth is required. I'm not particularly opposed to either.
|
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 08:27 (Ref:2601773) | #108 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,353
|
I don't see this as the ACO alone taking the decision to set up the LMIC - I suspect this has been done at the request of the manufacturers involved
|
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 10:48 (Ref:2601826) | #109 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
I would agree. The same manufacturers that continue to lobby to ensure Diesels are favoured. Ultimately, is either good for the sport?
|
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 11:50 (Ref:2601843) | #110 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,353
|
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 14:59 (Ref:2601926) | #111 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
It may be a necessary evil to keep those manufacturers involved. It ultimately seems to have had a part in losing Porsche and Acura. It is a barrier to non-diesel involvement.
TWK's website Last Turn Club has an interesting article just posted on this topic. |
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 15:08 (Ref:2601928) | #112 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
18 Dec 2009, 17:05 (Ref:2601983) | #113 | ||||||||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,326
|
I am not sure if I agree with all the conclusions of that article:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mandate your own crash testing specs and have the ACO or the manufacturers adept those if they have to; not the other way around. Quote:
If you want to separate yourself that far from the ACO's rules, go it all the way and create a completely new ruleset of your own. A ruleset like the one proposed in Mr. Farrel's article will eliminate any chance of a crossover from European teams, and for those fans who are especially drawn to the ALMS because its connection to Le Mans, this would be an issue. Personally, I'd have no problem with that as I like diversity and fret at the thought of seeing the same cars race all over the world, but others probably think different. Keeping an, however loose, connection to the ACO would only set this new class of cars back in terms of safety and parity of engine concepts and will most probably not bring any actual benefits. |
||||||||
|
18 Dec 2009, 17:35 (Ref:2601994) | #114 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 17:46 (Ref:2602004) | #115 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
Le Mans Intercontinent Cup is the balance needed. Big manufactures coming do America, Europe and Asia, and not being just in on side all the time, and once a year to Le Mans. |
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 17:52 (Ref:2602008) | #116 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Fans want V8’s, V10’s and 12’s to be making those glorious noises, and to be competitive.
... and the european and asian manufactures wants to sell to their costumers precisely the oppose! |
||
|
18 Dec 2009, 18:02 (Ref:2602016) | #117 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
L.P. |
|||
__________________
Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
18 Dec 2009, 18:24 (Ref:2602029) | #118 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,521
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 18:47 (Ref:2602038) | #119 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
My European self? Where did you saw on my comments that i want the best pilots and the best teams in the Le Mans Series? Speak for yourself... Do you know the meaning or the concept of 'International' or 'Intercontinental'? On my dictionary it's not Europe... maybe over there in states you have different English dictionaries... America is a large market, but it's not THE market! What market will be lost if the LMIC will race in America? You over there just watch races organized by yourself? If the ALMS dies, it's your fault, or you really think that you can have an series just with manufacture entries? Look to what happen to F1! Not even they could do it... Make way for the privateers. We have relied on them and the LMS is still standing up! "Such utter dross?" It´s not the first time you use this kind of language with me, but one thing that my 'Europeen self' is proud of, is respecting other people ideas even when i don't agree. Last edited by LeMans.pt; 18 Dec 2009 at 19:02. |
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 19:09 (Ref:2602052) | #120 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
I suggest you go back in this thread and read your own posts! L.P. |
||
__________________
Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
18 Dec 2009, 20:09 (Ref:2602082) | #121 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
|
Quote:
If you "get what you wish" with races on multiple continents, exactly how many of those "privateers" will be able to afford to go to all points of the globe to participate? Didn't FIA-GT, then later the LMS try to do a race in Brazil? Boy, the LMS sure had BIG numbers of privateers participate in that, didn't it? Even with Petit Le Mans being an "Automatic Bid' if you win your class, how many of the European privateers even bother to make that trip? Not enough to amount to a glob of spit...that's how many show up... Yet you still want to see this stupid world championship that will be enormously expensive for teams, thus it will lack any meaningful participation because they can't afford the trips, and will undercut the other Series in other parts of the world that help to support the ACO's ultimate goal to grow sportscar racing. Back when the old FIA sportscar series existed and had few competitors, I urged the ACO to form the LMS under its banner, and I think it was a great move... I just can't understand why the ACO chooses to do this NOW, when it should be done when the sport is strong enough to sustain it as opposed to doing it in the midst of a deep worldwide recession... I will close with this... The LMS season events (keep Le Mans out of this...separate, showcase event) have many more cars participating, but do not draw even remotely close to as many fans in attendance at the events as North American sportscar races attract to race weekends....not even close. In fact, Sebring and Petit both draw over 100,000 fans each (Sebring closer to 200,000), Mid-Ohio comes close to 90,000-100,000, Mosport draws 75,000+, and the list goes on and on... Why screw over an ACO-affiliated series that grows your fanbase for sportscar racing and for Le Mans by undercutting it? Last edited by Tim Northcutt; 18 Dec 2009 at 20:30. |
|||
__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
18 Dec 2009, 20:50 (Ref:2602101) | #122 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
Audi doesn't make a V10 R8? Toyota doesn't make a V10 Lexus LS-F? BMW and Mercedes don't sell cars with V12's? Nissan doesn't sell V8's? How many more examples do you want? |
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 21:17 (Ref:2602116) | #123 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
Brazil was bad, was just stupid, but, in the old WSC days, the final round had few entrants also, and, they had said that the transport would be paid, but only part of it. A Team Manager from a LMS team told me that it wasn't enough to transport an full dismantle LMP. Talking on WSC, the championship was almost for the top manufactures also, and they attend to the races they wanted to, here, there or in Asia, and things worked fine until FIA put an end on it. I´m not sure that LMIC is going to be a success, or a failure... probably, not even one or the other. But what i am sure, is that this competition was demanded by the manufacturers, and its not some silly kamikaze ideia from ACO. Audi was the first to say present on the new series, an Peugeot will follow for sure. An month ago, Quesnel in an interview on an french sport magazine said that it was necessary to put on an World Championship for manufacturers. Logistics will be a great problem i agree. In F1, Everything, or almost, is paid by the Championship sponsors, and i doubt that at least in an near future, that will happen in LMIC. Undercut what? Peugeot and Audi are doing only Sebring and Petit Le Mans, what will be different? There ain't Sebring this year but it will be in 2011. And on LMS? Peugeot and Audi are gone (Peugeot went for Spa), and now they can be both in Silverstone (Audi is for sure), an in the future they could be on 2 races. That is much more than we have now, and you loose nothing you didn´t already lost. Quote:
Then, we have the problem of the lack of works teams, and close races. I can see an seperate LMP2 field for privateer teams, but i can´t understand the advantage of diesel on LMP1. Now i'll make you two questions that i hope you respond: Could ALMS (and LMS also) survive only with LMP2 (with no works teams), GT1 and GT2 fields, leaving the top LMP1 for those who can go acroos the world? If NASCAR and Indy don't have works teams, and they are going well, why can't ALMS go the same way? |
||||
|
18 Dec 2009, 21:22 (Ref:2602118) | #124 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
Yesterday on Radiolemans, Ullrich was questioned about the ACO betting on smaller blocks, and he told that it suits the manufacturers because that's way they are going. Now i can´t post without this kind of aggressiveness? OK... |
|||
|
18 Dec 2009, 21:23 (Ref:2602119) | #125 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,326
|
Quote:
I think the 2011 LMP2 rules are a great chance for both regional series: With the change to production based engines, there will be manufacturer names without necessarily involving manufacturer efforts and the problems they bring for privateer teams (what I don't like is the 4l limit, just use the same restrictors as in GT2 and be done with it). With a little luck, manufacturers might even set up contingency programms for the teams that compete with their engines and thus indirectly support the teams that carry their banner. |
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Le Mans Series 2010 | HORNDAWG | ACO Regulated Series | 1144 | 21 Sep 2010 14:08 |
2010 Le Mans Classic | john ruston | Historic Racing Today | 487 | 25 Aug 2010 19:35 |
[LM24 Race] Le Mans 2010 - Who's going? | Craig | 24 Heures du Mans | 416 | 10 Jun 2010 22:11 |
[LM24] Changes to facilities at Le Mans 2010 | GT6 | 24 Heures du Mans | 32 | 3 Dec 2009 20:28 |
LM Intercontinental Cup (thread closed) | Gingers4Justice | Sportscar & GT Racing | 32 | 1 Sep 2009 15:51 |