[Official] Mexican Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[wnut]

Perhaps the racing during the periods between the red flags would become worth watching. More starts, more interest too.
The driving standards would also lift to ensure that the participants stayed more generally on the track and out the sand traps.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Since when was the purpose of a gravel trap to penalise cars that run off the track? .

What would be your argument against using them as such?

They would do the desired thing (to me) namely to cost people time that are unable or unwilling to stay on track without posing a safety hazeard to the drivers (including other forms of racing).

Originally Posted by steve_r

They are/were there for safety reasons to stop cars ploughing into barriers.

This idea that gravel traps are to be purposefully manufactured and installed to penalise a car that has left the track is a new one on me - and a bizarre "solution" to that problem.

Again, what makes it so bizarre for you?

Originally Posted by steve_r

Better and more consistanr stewarding surely is the answer. And while we are on the subject, why is there a different driver steward at nearly every race? No wonder there are inconsistencies.

I strongly disagree.

1. People are getting completely fed up with all the penalties being handed out for each and every thing.
2. Stewarding will always be (perceived as) inconsistant. Only in utopia it will be always consistant without anyone crying about a penalty.
3. For me it much more appealing that the track decides an outcome in stead of a room behing closed doors. Why, because a) the effect is inmidiate and not after 5 minutes or after the race even and b) no room for politics (or accusations there of).

[bella]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

It seems that the FIA may be investigating Vettel's verbal outburst against race officals in the latter stages of the Mexican GP.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fi...tburst-845676/

About time. I cannot imagine it taking this long in Balestre's time

in balestres time he wasn't able to hear the mid-race driver rants. nice try though

like i've said before, if they're going to probe anything, it should be whichever backwards numpty pressed the broadcast button at fom.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by wnut

I don't know where this tenet that drivers should be able to finish the race after they have fallen off came from.

To my mind the racing would be far more interesting and exciting if errors were punished by being beached in the gravel trap. The races would once more be a test of skill, and less talented drivers could not succeed in better machinery having visited the scenery a dozen times in a season and still scored bucket loads of points in the races where they messed up.

In the old days they would have been dead, not just inconveniently out of the race for the afternoon.

Absolutely.

The risk now for making a mistake is a flatspotted tyre and running wide over some tarmac. 10 years ago, it was the end of your race as you would likely end up in the gravel.

Its totally gone the wrong way. Far too much tarmac run off at every track.

I can perhaps excuse tarmac in some scenarios, for example I think probably Eau Rouge, but at places like Les Combes, Rivage, The no name left hander, Pouhon, Fagnes, I think there is much less of a need for it. The same with Silverstone. Copse, Maggots, Becketts, all dont need the run off they do. Gravel would be fine. The same can be said for the new stadium section they built. Its all so slow, yet its surrounded by tarmac. You could put grass surrounding it its so slow, no cars can get up to any speed to actually do any real damage.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

What would be your argument against using them as such?
.

I'm no expert but, my understanding is that gravel traps were phased out because they more perceived to be more dangerous to a very high speed out of control car than a tarmac run off. I think for low speeds gravel works, but at high speed cars can "dig in" and flip over.

[S griffin]

That's why I'd like to see wider cars because then it would be harder for them to roll

[wolfhound]

Vettel is sending a letter of apology to the FIA and Charlie Whiting.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ve...hiting-845878/

I suspect he might be getting an apology in before he gets hauled over the coals.

[S griffin]

But it's not like they didn't punish the guy he was complaining about

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I'm no expert but, my understanding is that gravel traps were phased out because they more perceived to be more dangerous to a very high speed out of control car than a tarmac run off. I think for low speeds gravel works, but at high speed cars can "dig in" and flip over.

Gravel has also been replaced with tarmac to keep cars in the race. In F1 with it's "small team friendly financing" and thus not so enorming starting grids they find keeping cars in the race important.

The risk of cars flipping over is indeed more of an issue with cars sliding side ways at high speed and thus in line with the straight before the corner. In this case putting a small gravel trap directly in front of T3, it's almost impossible to reach that proposed gravel trap in a high speed side ways manner.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Since when was the purpose of a gravel trap to penalise cars that run off the track?

fair question...i always felt that gravel around a hairpin was there to increase the challenge/penalize mistakes like at parabolica (or how it used to be).

but thats probably not its original intent nor the same logic as having a gravel trap at the end of a long straight.

[chillibowl]

saw this gem of a video of LH at turn one on reddit. reddit link or the video below.

https://streamable.com/08am

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Vettel is sending a letter of apology to the FIA and Charlie Whiting.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ve...hiting-845878/

I suspect he might be getting an apology in before he gets hauled over the coals.

Seems to have worked.....:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/241...nalty-for-rant


Also interesting to see Brundle's take on the various points of dispute: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/240...asnt-penalised

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Not sure - at the first corner when Lewis went off he was at least two car lengths clear of anyone else - as seen from the overhead shots.....when Max went off Seb was right on his gearbox......anyway as said, fine, give Lewis a 5 second penalty.....makes no odds

Only because he didn't brake for that particular corner. On the approach to T1, Rosberg was closer to Hamilton than he was to Verstappen. Hamilton was also closer to Rosberg than Verstappen was to Vettel when Max cut T1-T3 and later got penalized.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Also interesting to see Brundle's take on the various points of dispute: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/240...asnt-penalised

Not just his take either but a look at specifically why Hamilton was not punished.

However, I do have to agree with everyone above who thinks that straight-lining a corner shouldn't be possible due to some kind of circuit design. We shouldn't have a big fuss when once or twice a season we have a big clampdown on people staying on the marked track. The mere fact it has to be pointed out is embarrassing for the sport.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

saw this gem of a video of LH at turn one on reddit. reddit link or the video below.

https://streamable.com/08am

I can't get either link to work.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I can't get either link to work.

https://streamable.com/08am

Hopefully this will do it.

Championship manipulation springs to mind somehow!

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

fair question...i always felt that gravel around a hairpin was there to increase the challenge/penalize mistakes like at parabolica (or how it used to be).

but thats probably not its original intent nor the same logic as having a gravel trap at the end of a long straight.

Well the forerunner to gravel traps was catch fencing and that was used as a safety device to stop a car going into a wall at speed. But that was then replaced by gravel as the netting could choke or decapitate a driver and the pole had been known to knock out a few drivers

[spider]

SG - good point.

If there'd been a steep kerb or tyres running from the inside of T2 to T3 - to keep the T1 run-off intact, but stopping the (worse than Max) cut across the gravel by Lewis, as he'd have had to slow dramatically / navigate around it via T2, would stop that sort of thing happening again.

Danny Ric / Hulk spoke a lot of sense after the race. Was a weird one from the stewards. V.weird.

[Sodemo]

You could have much shallower gravel traps which would not have the same depth in order to prevent a car flipping over. Enough gravel to be a deterrent, but not enough to grab a car and flip it. The whole flipping argument I think is overplayed anyhow. Ive not seen all that many cars get flipped by gravel, certainly if the gravel is raked properly. Maybe its time to go back to armco lined tracks?

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

You could have much shallower gravel traps which would not have the same depth in order to prevent a car flipping over. Enough gravel to be a deterrent, but not enough to grab a car and flip it. The whole flipping argument I think is overplayed anyhow. Ive not seen all that many cars get flipped by gravel, certainly if the gravel is raked properly. Maybe its time to go back to armco lined tracks?

A few big trees and solid walls would put a stop to it even better. Drivers should be afraid of making mistakes, not just cross with themselves.

I know this will provoke a storm of criticism, but personally I believe the sport should be dangerous, then we might not see so many stupid manoeuvres.

[bella]

i don't think you're going to get a storm of criticism, because i think on the low a lot of drivers would agree with you - if they wanted it to be like a computer game they'd, well, play a computer game. equally they don't want to be exposed to unnecessary risk, which is the danger of reintroducing something that was outlawed for "safety" reasons at the time that frankly, were 50:50 in the first place.

[djinvicta]

Why can't they use the "chicane" barriers like at T1 Monza? LH would have had to steer left/right to get back on at T3.

[S griffin]

Or how about just replace gravel with sand?

[bella]

ooh no, have you ever tried to clear sand out of a car?

at least gravel can be swept and hoovered!

[chillibowl]

how about they just treat it like track (running) racing?

if you go out of bounds you are excluded.

if you get pushed out of bounds you are still excluded and the person who did the pushing can also be excluded perhaps for more then one race depending on the severity of the push.

at times its not fair but such is life as these things do happen in races.

no need to compromise safety or reconfigure tracks.