[WTCC] Race 7 & 8 - Pau (FRA), 17th May 2009

[JMeissner]

It's not over yet guys...

Safety car had no permission to exit pits:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3492

15 drivers left without a penalty for the same rule breach that resulted in penalties during qualifying:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3491

[Robbe]

I hope the Pau organizers pay for the damage Engstler's car has taken...

[White flag man]

Can anybody tell us what the team manager had to say. I'd love to hear it!

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Can anybody tell us what the team manager had to say. I'd love to hear it!

The same thing as the driver. Engstler is the team manager.

Without looking, I think Frank's comments to the Eurosport reporter were posted on touringcartimes

[BootsOntheSide]

Isn't it time we did away with street circuits? They are magnets for accidents, make for dull races with very little overtaking, are rarely nice to look at (Monaco being the most obvious exception) and seem to be a turn-off to fans outside the city. It's frustrating to see such repeat crashfests for so little good reason.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Isn't it time we did away with street circuits? They are magnets for accidents, make for dull races with very little overtaking, are rarely nice to look at (Monaco being the most obvious exception) and seem to be a turn-off to fans outside the city. It's frustrating to see such repeat crashfests for so little good reason.

I love street circuits, thanks.

Again, anyone know what was with the Chevrolet having see-through left side mirrors in qualifying? Oh, and where did Cleland go for this weekend?

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

It's not over yet guys...

Safety car had no permission to exit pits:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3492

Wow - Max Mosley stepping in personally. Well, that'll make all the difference! He's got an absolutely faultless record in that department. I thought he already approved of two tier championships anyway!

Originally Posted by JMeissner

15 drivers left without a penalty for the same rule breach that resulted in penalties during qualifying:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3491

Well, that'll be why Engstler didn't expect to see it round the corner. So not only did he drive across the track like an idiot - he shouldn't even have been on it. I hope he's never let near a WTCC circuit again.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

It's not over yet guys...

Safety car had no permission to exit pits:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3492

15 drivers left without a penalty for the same rule breach that resulted in penalties during qualifying:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3491

Wow. This is actually unbelievable. Has there ever been anything worse organised than this ever?

Judging by the fact cars from the race haven't been penalised, there are two sets of rules, one for qualy, one for the race. I can't believe they can be that inconsistent in one weekend. I knew the WTCC was badly run, but this is just stupid.

As for the safety car, I hope Engstler is compensated in some way, because not only did it massively damage his car, he would have got a lot of exposure if he led that race and could win it, and that is valuable to an independent that needs to please their sponsors and possibly attract more.

I think they may as well call it quits on the WTCC this year the way things are going. Tell the competitors to meet again in 2011 with new cars built to new regs, to run in a series organised by some new officials (and a new SC driver!). I just can't see how they can fix the problems right now. Until then, the teams can run in the domestic series, where, for a lower budget, they can race in a series which is properly organised, and won't change the rules every weekend.

[BootsOntheSide]

In fairness, Engstler would not have received the same publicity had he won the race. The sponsors will be seen on YouTube for years to come.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by awrb

I think they may as well call it quits on the WTCC this year the way things are going. Tell the competitors to meet again in 2011 with new cars built to new regs, to run in a series organised by some new officials (and a new SC driver!)

What a complete and utter joke the WTCC has become. It has now lost all credibility, the manufacturers will walk away from it and won't be coming back. And who could blame them?!

Well done, WTCC. You just committed suicide.

[Dead-Eye]

To be honest, I prefer "we'll let the result stand and make sure it doesn't happen again next race" over disqualifying all but 7 (by my count) of the classified drivers, especially as it wasn't an advantage.
Of course, it never should have happened in the first place.

[helterskelter]

It was not a suicide. The series was killed. It was a slow death that began in the very moment the Leòn TDi hit the track. Of course I'm not blaming SEAT for it, I'm blaming the organizers and whoever thought that a petrol normal engine and a diesel turbo engine could race together and be equalized. I think that, when the SEATs were all behind this weekend, we've seen some close racing (nobody overtook anyone, except Priaulx and Hernandez on Menu, but that's Pau...).
This isn't the championship I fell in love with: I want the good old championship back. Anyway, we've all seen Coronel's performances: wouldn't SEAT be competitive and provide us a super show without the diesel?
How could they kill such a wonderful creature? Shame on them...

[terence]

It makes you wonder if the SC driver is now being made a scape goat!
As for attending the drivers briefing,I would have thought that he should have been clued up on what his job entailed,after all,it is a Safety Car.
Perhaps it's time that during the drivers briefing,they should be reminded of just what the SC board/Waved Yellow's actually mean,most drivers tend to carry on at full race speed,which of course,they shouldn't.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

In fairness, Engstler would not have received the same publicity had he won the race. The sponsors will be seen on YouTube for years to come.

In years to come people would have forgotten the reasons for the accident and he'll just be the muppet who crashed into the safety car.

[werner]

If it was the only f#uck-up this weekend I would agree with you, but for a lot of fans this will be just the icing on the cake of a weekend full of crazyness.

On street-circuits. I have mixed feelings about them. They indeed have a tendency to create more damage and less overtaking. But I think Pau is beautifull to see, even when the cars are just driving at full speed at the track alone. But Marrakech was different in that objective. I'd say only street-circuits if they bring something special that could not be brought on another track.

Although I see the problems with diesel vs petrol, I like to see the different types of cars competing against eachother. If only they could make some clear rules, for everybody to read, create a smart penaltyweightsystem (which they did this year) and, most importantly STICK TO IT!
Another manufacturer entering a dieselpowered rearwheeldriven car would also help.

About the organisers. The current organizers have spent al their credits imo. They should be sacked.

[Sodemo]

So the SEAT's really were no where at Pau. Is that more to do with the boost pressure rule "clarification" or is it more to do with the constant direction changes of the Pau track not suiting the SEAT's heavier front end?

[Andy77]

SEAT was always at it but they chose to produce another audi-esque show grumbling

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

So the SEAT's really were no where at Pau. Is that more to do with the boost pressure rule "clarification" or is it more to do with the constant direction changes of the Pau track not suiting the SEAT's heavier front end?

A combination of both, but I'd say the turbo pressure was 70% responsible for this SEAT disaster.

[JMeissner]

It has been confirmed that the SC had no premission to leave the pits:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3502

[helterskelter]

This is crazy... If you look at the second video shown on TcT, you can also see that the pit exit official is chatting away to someone and clearly not paying attention to the action going on the track.
This is absurd. Poor Franz, he was leading...!!!! Hope the FIA will do something at least for the damages that his 320si suffered.

[Winchester]

Simple answer to all this...switch off the WTCC and watch the BTCC instead. The BTCC was entertaining us years before the WTCC was reformed, and will continue to do so years after the WTCC has imploded in a blaze of its own self-importance.
Stable rules, no reliance on manufacturers, nothing to confuse the casual spectator, and once again, a quality grid (Gio, Plato, Thommo, Neal).
All we need now is Muller, Rydell, Tarquini, Menu, Priaulx and Huff to come back and we have the best TCC in the world again.

[FIRE]

I think we can say it's a surprise Engstler is leading the independent championship. After round 1 and 2 I had thought Porteiro would run away with the championship.

[Winchester]

Me too, until he turned into a one-man destruction machine!

[Robbe]

Surely Engstler profited by Porteiro's mistakes and also the rev limit penalties, but he has shown massive improvements this year. At the age of 47! So his lead is not undeserved.

Bennani is another driver who surprises me, while Coronel and especially D'Aste are disappointing.

[helterskelter]

Félix is racing in a team that is having a very tough season. I don't know what's going on with Coronel, to be honest.
And Engstler, he's amazing. He was great last year, too, but even when you have a great experience you still have to learn all of the tracks! Sure enough the championship is going to be tighter than we expected. I believe Porteiro will be much stronger on tracks like Brno and Oschersleben. We'll see, but certainly it's great to watch (were it not for the 'rules and exclusions' thing).