Modus - Page 5

Chris Townsend · 31 Oct 2003, 16:50 (Ref:1556272)

Allen

001-F3, start of season for Bob Arnott, then Brise and Gygax at Monaco. Stays as F3 car for works, sold to Peter Clark 1975

002-F3 Probably: Debut for Brise at Monaco, then converted to FAt. Written off at end of year at Mallory

003-FA Probably: Tom Walkinshaw, debut 12.5 Silverstone

004-F3 Probably: May, Peter Scharmann, German F3

005-F5 Probably: Walkinshaw testing late September

006-F3 Either a late season works car or the first car of '75. Then you are into the definite '75 production I think.

Chris

Neptune · 2 Nov 2003, 03:54 (Ref:1556273)

Chris,

When Bryan & I discussed this several years ago, soon after I saw the 1st photos of 006, we surmissed it had to have been a '74 car, partly by virtue of Marcus list and the official works chassis data sheets start at 007. But I suppose 006 could have started in '74 but not finished or required until 1975. Then there is the issue of it's strange square section tubular sub-frames riveted into the front of the tub, pretty much replacing the 1/4" thick alloy front bulkhead w/ this structure and a sheet front panel. See photos a couple pages back of 006 tub today.

Marcus supposedly has the bare tub from #001 and stated in his chassis listing that it was unique. I wonder how unique it is compared to 006. I have sent him photos of 006 by way of a mutual friend, since I have no email direct contact to him, but I have never heard a reply in nearly 2 years.

Roger

allenbrown · 2 Nov 2003, 11:57 (Ref:1556274)

Roger

I've just emailed Marcus asking him to have another try at registering. That was the only thing holding him up.

I know he's been following this thread but just hasn't had time to get involved (yet!).

Allen

Neptune · 3 Nov 2003, 03:37 (Ref:1556275)

Allen,

That's great. Marcus has more information on these cars than all the rest of us put together. His input will be very welcome.

Roger

Bryan Miller · 3 Nov 2003, 09:25 (Ref:1556276)

Allen.

Hopefully Marcus can get hooked up, I know it took me about a week to figure it out.

Chris.

Can't agree with your scenario re. the first 6 cars.

Reasons.
Both Gygax and Brise had their own cars at Monaco 1974 A/s May 30th p.39 , Gygax's referred to as a Team car.

A/S reports Arnott at the following Silverstone 16-3-74 3rd. Thruxton 23-3-74 5th. At Oulton 15-4-74 , no engine available, then reports A/S Arnott at Mallory end April, then car being hired out to ?????????????? this reported 4/5May.

By Monaco I think Gygax gets the works renta. 001 ?????

Please note Marcus lists all cars as 1975 except 001, typo , so until Marcus hooks up , we don't even know if the Works records which state -007 and on are 1975 is correct.

Next A/S 30-5-74 p.40 , reports Brise at Oulton Park with some of the bits off his Monaco F3 car . This is referring to Brise's Atlantic car.
So at this point we have 2 x def. entities for Brise , an F3 car and a F/ Atlantic car as well as The works renta ex. Gygax Monaco.
Also Scharmann car in Europe , and Tom Walkinshaw in his F/Atlantic.

By 4-7-74 Arnotts car is for sale p.7.
The article states Tony Brise , who got married last weekend , will almost certainly have his first F2 outing in the works Modus at Karlskoga in August . The Holbay eng. is already at the Watton factory and the chassis is being completed.
Modus have announced that they will not be participating in F3 any more this year and the car which Bob Arnott drove early in the year is for sale.

O.K. we know the F2 thing didn't happen , but they state the chassis was being completed.Poss. this became Snappy's F5000.????????????
I still refer back to the Modus article , which states big batch of cars for Obermoser to be gone by end Nov.1974.

Tom totalls his car on 20-7-74 at the British G.P.

At the very least I believe M1-009-FA is also 1974 build , and this is Brise's car which gets played with via sidepods , wheels bodywork etc.

Marcus's list gives M6-010-FR as 1/75 to Alain Vignais [agent] as a Formula Renault.

Sounds like we can give -003 to Tom Walkinshaws Atlantic , at least for the time being, very short life car that one , about 3 months.

Bryan.

Dan Rear · 3 Nov 2003, 14:25 (Ref:1556277)

To go back a little way, does anyone know whether the ex FSV M2 that Dieter Carroll had in 79 ever raced as an Atlantic ? I know it was entered in early 79 races, did it ever make it onto the track.
Dan

IANHEB · 4 Nov 2003, 07:13 (Ref:1556278)

Bryan,
There is a picture of a Modus Formula (Super) Renault in Autosport on 13/2/75,with the great contradiction of being identical to the F3 car with completley revised bodywork !!
Probably 010 ?
Ian

Neptune · 4 Nov 2003, 12:09 (Ref:1556279)

Well that begs to know what is the "completely revised bodywork"? Does this mean the end of the two piece upper body? What is the latest car w/ two piece upper body?

Both 006 and 040 have their original sidepods intact. They are different. 006 has less shape at the front and the "coke bottle" shape of 040 is less apparent on 006. The pair of Dzus fasteners that go thru the nose and front edge of the upper body are in different locations. This is somewhat compounded by the fact that 006 has had the panel removed that covers the drivers legs, the dash support and the tube across the front of that panel which becomes the upper mount for the spring/ shock units and replaced w/ a larger diameter round tube structure that kept the car legal SCCA w/ a front roll hoop.

But, I am reworking one of the two noses that came w/ it to become a mold plug for both cars. It is the later nose w/ the built in splitter, rather than the aluminum bottom flange the earlier one has. The mounting locations are all wrong for my car and pre-date the front roll hoop structure.
So, I'm filling all the mounting locations on that nose and our molded noses will be neutral and can be drilled to fit either car. I would like to use the body from 006 to create a mold for the edges that were hacked off 040 when it was butchered into a sports racer, but the body shape is similar, but not the same. ie: I have tried to fit the front part of the upper body off 006 to the side pods of 040 but it is quite evident they were not meant to go together.

Roger

Bryan Miller · 17 Nov 2003, 05:37 (Ref:1556281)

Whilst trolling for Brabham info. I came across the following.
Autosport 12-1-1978 , Single seaters in Eire.

Gerry Kinnane is again running a Modus for Des Donnelly.
John Pollock is also to run a Modus.
Mike Nugent will probably continue to run his M3 Modus.
David Hall is replacing his 1.3 Imp Superloon with a Modus.

This article referred to Irish Atlantic for 1978, and is written by Marcus Pye. page 41.

If these all happened , that makes a truckload of Atlantic Modus.
As at this point 022 and what we know as 047 are both in New Zealand for the Atlantic series .
Bryan.

Richard Young · 17 Nov 2003, 11:30 (Ref:1556282)

As far as I can remember, only the Donnelly and Nugent cars actually appeared. I don't remember seeing john Pollock in a Modus - although I could be wrong, and I think David Hall ended up with a Suzuki modsaloon based on an RT1....

Dan Rear · 17 Nov 2003, 15:01 (Ref:1556283)

Just to add to this item, whilst looking at other things, I noted in 82 Monoposto at Mallory, Geoff Jackson had M1-044, presumably an ex-F3 car. Any help to anyone ?

Neptune · 2 Dec 2003, 04:16 (Ref:1556284)

Finally got to look at the TOJ sports racer. I'll try to post some photos later. Nameplate (chassis #) is a TOJ item, w/ their address and a chassis # unique to TOJ. It's a little scraped up, but the model 205 is part of the number.

Very strange; it has a cast alloy front bulkhead and the lower corners of the front lower wishbones locate onto other small castings riveted into the monocoque. The rear uprights proudly proclaim their heritage as M2 items and although the fronts appear similar, I see no Modus cast in ident at the front. Pin pattern on hub is same 3-3/4 PCD.

Roger

Neptune · 3 Dec 2003, 17:41 (Ref:1556285)

Not sure how much interest there is in this:

Bryan, Do you have the original Autosport issue of Chris Witty's visit to the works? Can you see if the front bulkhead of the SR is a casting?

Roger

Neptune · 3 Dec 2003, 17:44 (Ref:1556286)

Has anyone ever seen one of these chassis plates on a single seater. This one on the 205 sports racer.

Dan Rear · 3 Dec 2003, 17:55 (Ref:1556287)

Toj single seaters. Well the Hodges book says a number of Modus F3 cars, M1s, were re-badged as Toj for the German market.

Then a few F2 cars were made, for Rosberg/Heyer, maybe one or 2 others. Klaus Walz used one in an Aurora round in 78, not very well i'd add. Even Keke/Heyer couldn't get much out of them. I presume they were designed by Marquart, along the lines of the Modus M7, which also came out in 76, and was c--p too!!

I wonder if any of these still exist, the F3 or F2 cars. I believe the Modus M7 is still around somewhere over here (UK), did Hadfield have a go in it a few years ago ??

allenbrown · 3 Dec 2003, 21:46 (Ref:1556288)

I was talking to Simon Hadfield a few minutes ago. He's delighted we're taking on Atlantics and offered any help he could give. He said he has three at the moment: a 80A, a B39 and a Modus.

Allen

Neptune · 3 Dec 2003, 22:37 (Ref:1556289)

Dan,

My point is that Formula Cars, A-Z says that Modus F3, FSV and FR were sold as TOJ. Was there actually any difference? WERE THEY REBADGED??? or were they just sold as TOJ w/ Modus chassis number plates? Maybe Modus chassis plates and TOJ nose badges even? The number on this sports racer is not an M# and the F cars that were sold through TOJ were alocated Modus M-chassis numbers. Just wondering if those numbers were stamped into Modus tags, as we've suspected all along, or TOJ tags, such as this one.

I also don't see how you can call the cars c**p, since the F3 and FAtl showed quite well in period. The M7 doesn't seem to have gone well at all, but then again, I've never heard of either of it's drivers to go on to bigger and better things either. I'm sure today, anyone wishing to make it go could probably sort it out given enough cash thrown at it.

Roger

Bryan Miller · 3 Dec 2003, 22:48 (Ref:1556290)

Roger.

There is a hell of a lot of interest .
And I agree with you Roger , the M7 was a one off , and for any number of reasons , probably time and money , didn't work.

What we must not lose sight of , is the state of the U.K. economy at this time, by the end of 1977 Modus was well gone , with Ted Savoury deceased, and these things don't happen overnight , so possibly even in 1976 there may have been indications of problems arrising , and therefor not enought money to throw at a F2 project.

The F3 and F/Atlantic were certainly effective , also the Argos were well regarded, and an Argo , in it's early stage , i.e. JM1 were very little more than next years Modus underneath a diff. badge.

I will have a look at the Autosport article.

Bryan.

Neptune · 3 Dec 2003, 22:55 (Ref:1556291)

Bryan,

I thought Modus was totaly dead and gone in Nov '76. The M7 was a '76 model, wasn't it. My 040 was built in April '76 and came to the US in Feb '77. Argo was formed before end of '76. Did Argo take over the Modus works building. Or did they move a couple of miles down the road to Griston?

Roger

Bryan Miller · 3 Dec 2003, 23:03 (Ref:1556292)

Re. the poor old M7, in Autosport 1977 sometime, Lodge Corner Agencies were desperately trying to sell it incl. plans and it took a while before the adv. disappeared.

Dan Rear · 4 Dec 2003, 10:26 (Ref:1556293)

Roger/Bryan

Sorry if I mislead you on the Modi. Quite agree the F3/At cars were execellent, I always rooted for them as the 'underdogs' against the usual March hordes ! When I said the cars were c==p, I only meant the M7. I guess you're right that maybe it didn't have the best chance in life, but I thought Grob was a reasonable driver in Gp6 and F3 later, so wouldn't blame all its failings on the driver.

As I recall he later went back to an F2 M3 for a few UK Group 8 races, so I presume he agreed the older car was better than the M7. Btw what was that car, the F2 M3, it wasn't one of the Dicksons cars, which both went pretty well that year in both F2 and Atlantic spec.

I also agree on the Argo JM1, pretty similar to the Modi, siginificantly Marquart made that car on the lines of the original Modi, NOT the M7-type design !!

Allen, what do we know about Simon H's cars, specifically the B39 and 80A. Is the latter one of the cars that Richard Young has spied in Ireland per chance ??

Neptune · 4 Dec 2003, 17:27 (Ref:1556294)

A shot of the RR corner of the 205 SR. Note "Modus" cast into the rear upright.

Dan Rear · 9 Jan 2004, 16:51 (Ref:1556301)

To restart this one, does anyone know what happened to TW's F5000 M5? Was it completely written off?

Also what about the 1975 FSV M2, that Mike Young had, then various others until it turned up as an Atlantic entry for Dieter Carroll in '79. Did it ever race in that series ? I presume other M2s were made for Euro FSV around that time, to Germany as TOJs maybe, or perhaps referred to still as M2s.

Jeremy Jackson · 9 Jan 2004, 17:45 (Ref:1556302)

I thought Walkinshaw totally destroyed the second M5 (021) at Zolder in 1975.

I think Allen's contributions on various pages of this thread suggest that the first one wasn't rebuilt after the accident in the last race of 1974

allenbrown · 9 Jan 2004, 18:54 (Ref:1556303)

I've heard nothing of either M5 since. Who would know? Shall we try asking Tom?