Irish Formula Libre 2008

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Is the new question "how do you spell marshal?"

Whoops, must have been the excitment! Anyway clever clogs, name the three founder members of the MRMCI

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunne

Whoops, must have been the excitment! Anyway clever clogs, name the three founder members of the MRMCI

I think a more interesting question would be 'why was it called the Horgan straight'

Perhaps 'Horgan' was some guy who built a special that was the first car to achieve 100mph on that part of the circuit'
or
maybe it used to be twisty and 'Horgan' built a twin engined 4WD that allowed him to cut all the corners and it then became...
or
maybe it has homosexual connotations !!! welll you never know nowadays
ermmm I think I'd better stop now

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by SAMD

maybe it has homosexual connotations

Tell us more about these homosexual feelings that you have. Anyone we know? (and I thought work was gonna be boring today)

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunne

Whoops, must have been the excitment! Anyway clever clogs, name the three founder members of the MRMCI

LOL - have to wait until I get home - I have the articles of association there somewhere!

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunne

Thats right. Looks like there's more than one anorak in this cloakroom...

So it's congratulations to libre racer who gets Ten-Tenths adverts free until 31st March.

[libre racer]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

So it's congratulations to libre racer who gets Ten-Tenths adverts free until 31st March.

Cheers. Can i give this to Peter as he seemed like he wanted it?

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by libre racer

Cheers. Can i give this to Peter as he seemed like he wanted it?

Nah, he can cough up £10 a year if he wants it that bad!

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Nah, he can cough up £10 a year if he wants it that bad!

How about a pint instead?

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunne

How about a pint instead?

Tempting, but at Mondello prices, and the fact that you'd have to buy EvilPumpkin a cider too it would be cheaper paying the tenner!

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Tempting, but at Mondello prices, and the fact that you'd have to buy EvilPumpkin a cider too it would be cheaper paying the tenner!

Whats this I hear about a big race meeting at Mondello in May? What all will be running. Would it be worth going over to it?

P.S. Is anyone else catching this wind today. The plate glass in my office window is flexing about 20mm! I am waiting for it to come in 'round me.

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Whats this I hear about a big race meeting at Mondello in May?

Its the 40th anniversary meeting on 17th and 18th. Dont know if there is going to be anything interesting. Keep an eye on Mondello website.

[stealth1]

40th Anniversary meeting will feature all the local classes including Saloon Libre and a long distance sports car race. I've heard about a kind of celebrity race for star drivers from down the years driving Mazda's of some sort ... lots of other initiatives been talked about ... what will happen on the day remains to be seen. As Peter says, keep an eye on the Mondello website for announcements, and on these forums for the speculation!! There'll be plenty of history and nostalgia over the weekend, no doubt, so well worth a visit, I should think!

Hey Peter Dunne in your house, is'nt it about time you went in your garage and got that car ready?? I hear you're going to have more F3 opposition!

See NEWS page for some .. erm .. NEWS!!

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by stealth1

Hey Peter Dunne in your house, is'nt it about time you went in your garage and got that car ready??

Gearbox currently all over the garage floor! Have to get a move on as I am going to Florida on Friday and want to have it ready for test day on 12th before I go. I'll leave the keys out for you Ed and you can finish it for me....

[libre racer]

See NEWS page for some .. erm .. NEWS!![/quote]

Are you expecting more entries this year ? How will this work?Does this mean the slowest cars and the fastest cars will get just one race or will we see people sandbaging? If you were to base the new format on last years entry numbers, the slowest cars would be left out of the second race even though there would be empty spaces on the grid.I would have though Mondello would rather make the grids bigger not smaller.

[stealth1]

I'll leave the keys out for you Ed and you can finish it for me....

No problem Peter, leave out the assembly instructions and the glue as well!

How will this work?Does this mean the slowest cars and the fastest cars will get just one race or will we see people sandbaging?

Yes, one race for the fastest and slowest cars. We have to keep the main objective in mind, which may well result in smaller grids, but theres nothing we can do about that. We will however give as many as possible in the middle 2 races without there being too much of a speed disparity between the cars in either race. If its obvious that someone is sandbagging, he or she will be gridded directly behind the fastest qualifiers to the feature race

[libre racer]

. We have to keep the main objective in mind

What is the main objective?

[Peter Dunne]

Originally Posted by libre racer

What is the main objective?

It is to reduce the chance of an accident when the big fish are lapping the little fish by keeping as many of the little fish as possible out of the pond when the big fish are swimming!!

[libre racer]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunne

It is to reduce the chance of an accident when the big fish are lapping the little fish by keeping as many of the little fish as possible out of the pond when the big fish are swimming!

If this is correct ,is this new format being driven by Mondello or Irish Formula Libre organisers? Whoever it is you might as well come out and say you don't want slow cars as they are only in the way!Libre is supposed to mean free.Enter whatever car you want and be treated equally.Has anyone considered what will happen when one qualifying session is wet and the other is dry? Will the rules change that day ?God forbid the"faster cars " may have to lap some "slower cars".
This class worked well last year.Good grids and good racing.Please don't try to fix it when its not broken.

[Peter Dunne]

Libre racer has a point. All other forms of motorsport around the world have to contend with back markers and by and large do so quite easily. Whats so special about us? Whose idea was this anyway? As a driver, I don't seem to recall being asked my opinion. Are there any other drivers viewing this forum? What are your opinions?

[eugeneheary]

My opinion for what its worth is this.It may be true that Formula Libre is a one for all types of cars,however over the last 2 years many drivers have invested a lot of money in more powerful cars including Dan Daly,Ken Fildes etc etc.The first problem is that parts for these cars are getting more and more difficult to find and when you do find them they cost and arm and a leg.I recently found this out when trying to replace part of a damaged front wing from the 97 Reynard.
I know that many classes in the world have slower cars that they must pass but they are similar sized cars.How can a car like an F3000 with an average of 400Bhp be in the same class as a Formula Vee with maybe 130 Bhp?A car like a 3000 can come out of turn two in Mondello and if a Vee is entering turn three the 3000 will be on top of the Vee before it leaves turn three!
Another point is that many spectators who had not been in Mondello for years only returned to hear and see the big engined cars.Formula Libre is a crowd pleaser.Rumour has it that there will be close to 12 Big cars out in 2008 and i expect it will bring big crowds down.Lets ask the question like this,will a grid of 12 Vees with 3 big cars draw much attention?I know for sure as a driver i would not be coming out if it was like that and i suspect many of the other drivers would feel the same!Why cant the Libre Vees race in their own class like all the other drivers of formula Vee?Might sound very cold and selfish but thats my opinion....

[libre racer]

You are entitled to your opinion ,however misguided.
Racing cars are exspensive ,not just the "big ones".
Your damaged wing wasn't caused lapping a Formula Vee.You damaged it by hitting the back of a "smaller car" that you finished behind at the last race.
Holden engines are rated at 370BHP. Formula Vee's are about 70BHP.
Spectators want to see racing not just "big cars".
There was only one race last season when 12 "big cars" where there but that depends on how you decide what is a big car.Is it the lap time the car is capable of or the actual lap time it does or maybe the size of the car or the noise it makes?
Some of the the slower cars that you selfishly don't want, have supported Libre every day last year not just 2 days like some of the "Bigger cars"

[Stephen Green]

Guys please remember the rule, attack the post not the poster.

[Graz]

Lads, Stephen Green is spot on, let's stick to the point and let everyone have their opinion, whether agreed with or not.

From my own viewpoint, I am a spectator going to Mondello since 1982. In recent years I had stopped going because I got bored of the pletora of low powered one make racing that existed co-inciding with the demise of FFord and FOpel also.

I started going back to Mondello purely because of the big single seaters in the Libre class. Co-inciding with this has been the influx of GT3's into the Porsche class which also makes this an appealing series. As a spectator, what's the common link? The fast, high powered cars.

I can understand all viewpoints. For example, why should the small car drivers feel they are being cast aside after years of loyal support?

Peter Dunne makes an important point in was this decision arrived at without consulting with the drivers.

My own opinion, purely as a spectator is that I would prefer to see the quickist cars twice in the day. I know Libre means anything goes but I think this should be within reason. I'd prefer to see a limit on what Libre does actually mean based on lap speeds so that the slower cars can't enter Libre and should say, use their Vee to enter the Formula Vee class. Perhaps the rule should be that if you have a car eligible for another series, this is where you should be? It should be about quality and not quantity - there would still be large grids, not only comprised of the big cars.

For me, only seeing the fast cars once each meeting would make me less likely to want to go down to Mondello. A class such as this could be a real catalyst in attracting spectators back down to Mondello but contracting it like this would have the oposite effect. By diluting the series in this way could also set it back. Guys may not find the series as appealing if they are getting less race time so won't bother investing in an expensive big single seater.

Many highly spectacular series down through the years in Mondello have been consigned to history (e.g. the Cosworths that raced prod saloon in the late 80's - why oh why did they turn this into a 2 litre normally aspirated class only - killed it stone dead).

Just my opinion so don't go nuts at me guys. If I was a racer of a smaller car I would probably feel different.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by eugeneheary

My opinion for what its worth is this.It may be true that Formula Libre is a one for all types of cars,however over the last 2 years many drivers have invested a lot of money in more powerful cars including Dan Daly,Ken Fildes etc etc.The first problem is that parts for these cars are getting more and more difficult to find and when you do find them they cost and arm and a leg.I recently found this out when trying to replace part of a damaged front wing from the 97 Reynard.
I know that many classes in the world have slower cars that they must pass but they are similar sized cars.How can a car like an F3000 with an average of 400Bhp be in the same class as a Formula Vee with maybe 130 Bhp?A car like a 3000 can come out of turn two in Mondello and if a Vee is entering turn three the 3000 will be on top of the Vee before it leaves turn three!
Another point is that many spectators who had not been in Mondello for years only returned to hear and see the big engined cars.Formula Libre is a crowd pleaser.Rumour has it that there will be close to 12 Big cars out in 2008 and i expect it will bring big crowds down.Lets ask the question like this,will a grid of 12 Vees with 3 big cars draw much attention?I know for sure as a driver i would not be coming out if it was like that and i suspect many of the other drivers would feel the same!Why cant the Libre Vees race in their own class like all the other drivers of formula Vee?Might sound very cold and selfish but thats my opinion....

I think the expense argument is very subjective, as it may be more painful for some guys to run a Vee as it is for others to run a V6 Holden or W.H.Y. But surely the over-riding factor must be that it is unsafe to run the races given the above scenario, and the organisers must take this into account. Can you imagine the stink if for some reason the FIA decided to allow the top 10 FF duratech cars onto the back of the F1 grid? It could never happen. And Mondello have had to sort out some way of controlling the entry list.

And thats my tuppence worth
From somone who is never likely to enter the race
But then again, thats what a forum like this is for.

[libre racer]

[quote=SAMD]
Sadly for us we are not in F1. Last year we struggled to fill grids in the Libre class and without the smaller cars there may not have even been races. I hope we do get all these big cars that seem to be expected for this season but if we dont and the smaller cars have decided just to stick to their own classes ,will Mondello continue to run races with grids of 10 to 12 cars which normally are reduced to 5 or 6 by the end.People seem to forget that the smaller car owners usually move up to bigger cars if they can but that wont happen if they feel unwanted before they even start.
If anyone of the rulemakers are out there, what is the acceptable lap time to be considered worthy of entering a Libre race? If we new this it could save us the trouble of entering only to be told we are not quick enough.