[FIA GT] GT3 European Championship 2011

[sventhedog]

thanks for the reply guys. will watch the stream then. i'll read the rest of the thread for now to catch up with what's going on.

[Pandamasque]

Is there an event time table anywhere? It's not on the official website, shockingly.

Found one here http://www.fiagtportimao.com/timetable.html That's local time I guess (CET -1h)

[sventhedog]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Is there an event time table anywhere? It's not on the official website, shockingly.

Found one here http://www.fiagtportimao.com/timetable.html That's local time I guess (CET -1h)

thank you for this timetable. why didn't they indicate schedules at their official website? they just indicated may 8 which is race 2.

i missed race 1.

i tried to estimate the time the race will be shown here in asia gmt+8. is the race around 6 1/2 hours from now?. i just want to be sure. i'm not missing race 2. lol.

[lms]

does anyone know why there were no bmw alpinas in this race? Does Anyone heard about privateers planning to run the upgraded bmw alpina this year? And what about corvette???

[rich07]

Alpina were looking for people to run the car this year but seem to have found none for FIA GT3, Corvettes seem to be unfairly BOP (and they're getting on in age too).

Those Schubert Z4s look soo mean! And they lead both driver and team points.

Anyone remember when was the last time one manufacturer swept the podium in a FIA GT3 race?

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by rich07

Anyone remember when was the last time one manufacturer swept the podium in a FIA GT3 race?

Yeah, those aging Corvettes last year at Brno, 123 and 5 in the first race.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by kyoung

Yeah, those aging Corvettes last year at Brno, 123 and 5 in the first race.

Thanks, my memory obviously not as good as yours.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by kyoung

Yeah, those aging Corvettes last year at Brno, 123 and 5 in the first race.

And was one of the reasons the Corvette has been restricted to death, literally, my only fear is now the same will happen to the BMW.

[Racenut]

On the subject of the BMW, a question for anyone that was at the weekends avent. Does anyone know whether they are using a flat floor on the Z4 over the weekend? I know that it is not in the rulebook but what would stop BMW from including it in homologation forms?

[kyoung]

Apparently in a series so desperate for participants you can campaign a unicorn with a flat floor, but if you happen to enter a car based on a real road going version and the car happens to be successful, well then you have to throw on the anchor and choke the engine so the unicorn has a chance. What we really need is some rear wheel drive Astra with a V8, or better yet bring in a Chevy Cruze from WTCC and immediately start complaining for some performance balancing.

At 1210KG running a very large restrictor why would they need a flat floor? You see this is the crux of the problem, if the FIA/SRO BoP all the cars you should be able to bring a go cart and compete. It’s an illusion, FIA GT3 has nothing to do with racing; it’s a show where the FIA/SRO picks winners. No need for teams to improve/develop their cars, because if you do the FIA/SRO will only ballast/restrict it anyway.

Someone needs to form a sanctioning body that reflects the interest of all manufacturers and drivers. One made up of respected drivers and manufacturer representatives from the past and form a real “World” sanctioning body for GT racing. You may say I’m a dreamer…well you know the rest.

[Pandamasque]

...but you're not the only one. I hope Ratel will join us, but his world is GT1.

Seriously though, IMO, they have a point in allowing cars with 'waivers' but they should be the only ones with BoP. 100% compliant cars shouldn't, well maybe with some fixed power/weight ratio to allow the Elises of this world compete with Mustangs.

[kyoung]

Ratel is that stinky kid no one wants at their party.

How about Lotus designs a car that won't need BoP to compete with Mustangs, or find a series with cars they can compete with like the Z4 (well a real Z4, not the GT3 aberration).

Sanctioning bodies shouldn't be telling manufacturers how to build cars, they should be providing strict class structures of like cars and actually enforce the rules.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I am going to guarantee you that if the strength of the BMW Z4 continues, then we will see that car restricted to the point of non competitiveness and more FIA GT3 teams will be screwed by the BOP.

[kyoung]

Just to put things in perspective, here is the size difference of a couple restrictors for comparison.

Consider also that the Vette is 140KG heavier than the Z4 thanks to the FIA, which makes it even more laughable.

BoP my arse.

[hondafan37]

I agree with you, But the problem is that without a balance of performance, How many different brands you would have running?
Remember how poor was the FIA GT in the late of 90. You had a couple of Vipers, Marcos, Listers and a lot of Porsche 911.
Actually in GT2 you have 4 competitive cars (BMW, Corvette, Ferrari and Porsche) and BMW and Corvette only participate in ALMS/ILMC, in the rest of the GT2 categories you have only 2 competitive cars.
In GT3 you have around 8 or 10 brands with a chance to win, but in this moment the BoP is totally unfair.
I would like the application of a BoP more cleaner and transparent. And you must have another BoP according to the points scored in the championship.
The BoP is not the best system but is better than nothing.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I agree with you, But the problem is that without a balance of performance, How many different brands you would have running?

I think the point is that more brands/cars would be running if the BoP was better.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by kyoung

How about Lotus designs a car that won't need BoP to compete with Mustangs, or find a series with cars they can compete with like the Z4 (well a real Z4, not the GT3 aberration).

I cant believe BMW got away with racing the Z4 with a V8 and not having a road going equivalent to base the car on I thought the other Germans would've raised their voices at those two extra cylinders. Audi brought out the R8 LMS with a V10 and then promptly followed up with a V10 roadcar.

Plus we're missing out on a V8 powered Z4 roadcar.

[alexkiller8]

is the denaturation of the GT3 spirit.... this is only the first example of running cars with a not the same road car engine.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

is the denaturation of the GT3 spirit.... this is only the first example of running cars with a not the same road car engine.

The Nissan GT-R GT3 might be another.

[MitchZ06]

The rules allow a engine swap as long as its an engine from the same manufacturer (thats why the GT1 Nissan GTR can use the V8 from the pickups Nissan builds...)

[Racenut]

IMOA the GT3 rules are good in principle, it allows a lot of manufacturers to compete. If your road car does not have enough power then you homologate a bigger engine. It also restricts over powered beasts (SLS) from wiping everyone out of the competition.

I said 'in principle', there is no denying that the corvette needs a bigger restrictor to become 'competitive'.

I think that 'competitive' is a good word. As long as everyone has a 'chance' of winning then we are all happy. There will be tracks better suited to certain vehicles (or teams) but overall they all need a chance to run at the front.

I asked about the flat floor because I would not be surprised if the Z4 is a test bed for a GT1 car. Take out the ballast, drop the ride height, open up the restrictors and they would be GT1 cars (if they have a flat floor).

[JAG]

In a similar vein, Mclaren said when building the GT3, because there are no regs, they built the car with GTE in mind, i.e race gearbox, electronics etc.

[sventhedog]

Originally Posted by Racenut

IMOA the GT3 rules are good in principle, it allows a lot of manufacturers to compete. If your road car does not have enough power then you homologate a bigger engine. It also restricts over powered beasts (SLS) from wiping everyone out of the competition.

I said 'in principle', there is no denying that the corvette needs a bigger restrictor to become 'competitive'.

I think that 'competitive' is a good word. As long as everyone has a 'chance' of winning then we are all happy. There will be tracks better suited to certain vehicles (or teams) but overall they all need a chance to run at the front.

I asked about the flat floor because I would not be surprised if the Z4 is a test bed for a GT1 car. Take out the ballast, drop the ride height, open up the restrictors and they would be GT1 cars (if they have a flat floor).

i agree. great win audi!

[Jameson]

Originally Posted by Racenut

IMOA the GT3 rules are good in principle, it allows a lot of manufacturers to compete. If your road car does not have enough power then you homologate a bigger engine. It also restricts over powered beasts (SLS) from wiping everyone out of the competition.

I said 'in principle', there is no denying that the corvette needs a bigger restrictor to become 'competitive'.

I think that 'competitive' is a good word. As long as everyone has a 'chance' of winning then we are all happy. There will be tracks better suited to certain vehicles (or teams) but overall they all need a chance to run at the front.

I asked about the flat floor because I would not be surprised if the Z4 is a test bed for a GT1 car. Take out the ballast, drop the ride height, open up the restrictors and they would be GT1 cars (if they have a flat floor).

Take out the ballast? The car has 20kg of ballast (full list on FIA's site) which makes it 1210kg and that would be right in the ball park for GT1. Also, at least with the brands running both in GT1 and GT3, the GT1 cars have smaller restrictors.

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by Jameson

Take out the ballast? The car has 20kg of ballast (full list on FIA's site) which makes it 1210kg and that would be right in the ball park for GT1. Also, at least with the brands running both in GT1 and GT3, the GT1 cars have smaller restrictors.

20kg in the Z4 would make a noticeable difference. But if you take away all the GT3 restrictions and added a flat floor, got the aero working, the Z4 is still short on capacity compared to other GT1 cars. It would be competitive at some tracks so it would be interesting to see.