Has "sportsmanship" gone from F1? - Page 5

**Born Racer** · 4 Apr 2013, 16:13 (Ref:3229180)

That's fine. But at the end of the year, Webber may have the sympathy but Vettel is more likely to have what counts.

At least Ferrari have sort of learnt to stop denying they have a favourite.

**Bononi** · 4 Apr 2013, 19:55 (Ref:3229268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Bob

I've held my tongue this long and can't sit back any longer.

Vettel is a CHEAT, he STOLE the position from Webber using DECEIT.

If he wins the championship by 7 points or less, from anybody, he is a PRETENDER.

That simple.

Talk sportmanship all you like, it has nothing to do with this situation.

He LIED.

If Vettel had sat in the team briefing before the race and said bugger team orders I'm going for the win, I bet Webber wouldn't have turned his engine settings down and would have fought for the position instead of being lolled into a false sense of security and being AMBUSHED by Vettel.

I've thought Vettel was up there with the best, but the best of the best don't need to stoop to such low tactics to achieve a win.

Hollow and meaningless victory indead.

And he's feeling so bad for that.

MarkG · 4 Apr 2013, 20:29 (Ref:3229282)

ok, some say what Vettel did was no different to what has been done in the past.. we'll all look back one day and talk in awe about him.. etc etc etc..

I won't, I'm pretty sure of that.

What has been forgotten/overlooked.. is that he did his bit of "bravado/it's what true drivers do/it's what makes great great" to a driver that wasn't prepared and with a detuned engine. If Webber's car was equal, then "maybe" some could sort of forgive him his petulance, sorry, not petulance, mastery.

Taking candy from a baby isn't quite as tough as taking candy from a cage-fighter.

**Born Racer** · 4 Apr 2013, 20:43 (Ref:3229291)

Why did Webber not attack back? He seemed to concede the position too easily eventually. You can be damn sure Vettel wouldn't have.

chillibowl · 4 Apr 2013, 20:50 (Ref:3229295)

exactly! he should have put a wheel into SV when he got close. ultimately he chose not to. that makes him a good guy but sadly they dont give out titles for that.

MarkG · 4 Apr 2013, 21:21 (Ref:3229306)

I give up.

**Born Racer** · 4 Apr 2013, 21:32 (Ref:3229313)

That's what Webber did too.

MarkG · 4 Apr 2013, 21:38 (Ref:3229315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

That's what Webber did too.

Actually, you're right, he did.

Teretonga · 4 Apr 2013, 22:12 (Ref:3229324)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

exactly! he should have put a wheel into SV when he got close. ultimately he chose not to. that makes him a good guy but sadly they dont give out titles for that.

Yep.
I would have felt completely justified in putting Vettel off and if we handed Mercedes a 1-2 so what. The little man has no right to do that to me....

Now Horner and co would have something to really grind their teeth over and it would be entirely their fault if the same circumstance ever repeated itself.

The trouble is I may not have a drive for much longer...not with this team anyway...

This situation does not reflect Webber's attitude. He is too conscientious...

**Bononi** · 5 Apr 2013, 00:54 (Ref:3229351)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Why did Webber not attack back? He seemed to concede the position too easily eventually. You can be damn sure Vettel wouldn't have.

Because he's a good and subservient #2.

JeremySmith · 5 Apr 2013, 04:14 (Ref:3229377)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Because he's a good and subservient #2.

That's right he is, and it makes him angry...

Another Bob · 5 Apr 2013, 09:23 (Ref:3229433)

Ahhh, thanks Garcon, yes I do feel better for that little rant.

Nothing like getting it off your chest.

Concerning Webber and why he didn't fight to take it back, I think he is cleverer then that.

If they had a close encounter of the worse kind again, it would have been in some peoples eyes, (the ones that sign the pay cheques) Webbers fault.

Also he can use this in the future to his advantage. If he attacked back he would have lost that advantage.

Paradise City · 5 Apr 2013, 09:37 (Ref:3229438)

Webber should've tripped him up on the podium.

**Born Racer** · 5 Apr 2013, 14:11 (Ref:3229531)

Still, at least we finally got to see what had been tipped to happen with the new podium ceremony. The drivers are just that bit hotter, more het up and more likely to say something like "Seb will receive protection as always". It's just ironic that what unfolded in the press conference afterwards would have been interesting to watch and we don't see them anymore. (You can read them on the official Formula 1 website).

chillibowl · 5 Apr 2013, 14:33 (Ref:3229540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Yep.
I would have felt completely justified in putting Vettel off and if we handed Mercedes a 1-2 so what. The little man has no right to do that to me....

Now Horner and co would have something to really grind their teeth over and it would be entirely their fault if the same circumstance ever repeated itself.

The trouble is I may not have a drive for much longer...not with this team anyway...

This situation does not reflect Webber's attitude. He is too conscientious...

true if he had done that he might have lost his seat over it immediately but he still might lose his seat by seasons end if he lambasts the team on the podium the next time he gets screwed over. its possible there is no real way for him to win here other than maintaining a good reputation...which of course keeps him a desirable driver for other teams.

and yeah it was a classic podium. i also like the new format.

jedrinck · 5 Apr 2013, 20:34 (Ref:3229681)

Was there a similar discussion after the 2011 British GP?

**Adam43** · 5 Apr 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3229708)

Nope, but then it wasn't the same.

jedrinck · 5 Apr 2013, 21:40 (Ref:3229721)

That's why I wrote similar.

**Adam43** · 5 Apr 2013, 22:54 (Ref:3229742)

Oh good, another semantics discussion.

Please accept my apologises.

What I meant was that it was quite different, so no it didn't cause a similar discussion.

jedrinck · 6 Apr 2013, 09:27 (Ref:3229875)

Didn't mean to be wise semantically, I just thought the situation was similar. It was a team order to avoid the risk of the the RBR drivers taking each other out. Neither of them is good at obeying it seems.

**Adam43** · 6 Apr 2013, 10:30 (Ref:3229891)

Webber did adhere to the team order though, IIRC. Showed his nose, showed he was faster. Stayed behind.

To be fair I am mainly going on Herbert's analysis from the last F1 show where they showed it again. I agree with him. Nothing to see here in trying to see biased people who wouldn't think the same if the names where changed.

jedrinck · 6 Apr 2013, 10:59 (Ref:3229901)

My impression was that Webber just didn't make it past back then. Well, if he deliberately gave up the attempt then it is different, agreed.

The Original Instag8or · 6 Apr 2013, 17:46 (Ref:3229986)

So Vettel has violated some "sportsmanship" standards by refusing to follow team orders...

Since when are "team orders" considered in any way shape or form "sportsmanlike"?

**Aysedasi** · 6 Apr 2013, 18:17 (Ref:3229996)

Probably since team racing with more than one car entered by a team has ever existed.......

Teretonga · 6 Apr 2013, 21:05 (Ref:3230065)

I just watched a video of Moss cruising to the line with his team mate holding station alongside in second..... First Brit to win British GP.

That sort of obedience /respect for team orders/your team mate was not in evidence in Malaysia. Is F1 worse for that. I think so