[BTCC] Round Four, Oulton Park 31 Jul-01 Aug, Races 10,11&12

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by tux

I wonder if Boardley damaged something on his car when he hit Sutton on lap 1 of the restarted race 3?

Reported brake failure for Boardley so could well have damage something earlier in the race

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I really do beg to differ, especially having been a competitor in Special Saloons for about 5 years in the late 60s.

And having raced pretty well every other weekend during that time, often towards the front of the pack but also nearer the back, my car never even had a scratch in the paintwork. We didn't swap paint, nor did we rub doorhandles and we certainly never tapped the car in front to destabilise our fellow drivers. Possibly because in the main we respected each other, and would always help our fellow competitors if they were in need.

Furthermore, you only need to look at some of the photos of club meetings from back then that clearly demonstrate that huge crowds would attend even the smallest club meetings to watch guys and gals racing each other, almost always without any contact whatsoever.

Well said that man.

Zero respect for their fellow competitors or the equipment, including their own.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

I saw the crash in the Mini race, that...was...NASTY!

[Nononsensecapeesh]

So it was a weekend of firsts for the BTCC:

1. Proctor's first pole and Honda win.
2. Rowbo's first outright and Independent wins.
3. Butcher's first Toyota win

and of course, Jack Mitchell's debut, not a bad start despite colliding with Hamilton and Edwards in Race 3. Silverstone 1994 almost sprung to my mind when Osborne spun in front of all those oncoming drivers.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

So it was a weekend of firsts for the BTCC:

1. Proctor's first pole and Honda win.
2. Rowbo's first outright and Independent wins.
3. Butcher's first Toyota win

and of course, Jack Mitchell's debut, not a bad start despite colliding with Hamilton and Edwards in Race 3. Silverstone 1994 almost sprung to my mind when Osborne spun in front of all those oncoming drivers.

Osbourne did indeed spin - after being squeezed off the track onto the damp grass by Smiley….the diving standards were truly appalling all weekend

[CarfanLUFC]

Can't remember the last time there was that much chaos across all the races. Poor old Tingram, even when Sutton has a nightmare he can't capitalise due to one thing or another.

Lots of damage for a lot of teams and just two weeks until Knockhill.....

[Moneyseeker]

Shocking driving standards across many of the series. As for the Mini Challenge, it reminded me of the worst days of the old Clio cup demolition derby.

[Mike Harte]

The driving standards overall yesterday were absolutely atrocious and the sooner that someone in authority clamps down on it the better, certainly before someone gets seriously hurt. I don't really care who does it, whether it be the BARC who run the races or Gow or the MSA, but it needs to be stamped out PDQ.

This is why swapping paint, etc can be so dangerous and shouldn't be permitted in circuit racing.

[Alfisti]

It is highly unlikely I will be watching ANY motorsport in this country anytime soon, if ever.

I am incensed at the appalling standards on display at Oulton yesterday. Given the loss of life of one our brave marshals the day before makes it unforgivable.

I will say no more lest I upset the snowflakes.

Au revoir!

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Osbourne did indeed spin - after being squeezed off the track onto the damp grass by Smiley….the diving standards were truly appalling all weekend

I noticed how that happened and everything else.

[antnee]

Just caught up on the weekend's action. I don't think there were actually many incidents which were bad, it was the knock-on effects which caused the carnage. Lots of silly taps, knocking cars into other people. We want close, exciting racing but the fine line was crossed this weekend causing lots of damage.

Plato showing his experience with the 3 corner overtake set up in R2 or R3 was excellent though, a few drivers need to learn that level of race craft.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The driving standards overall yesterday were absolutely atrocious and the sooner that someone in authority clamps down on it the better, certainly before someone gets seriously hurt. I don't really care who does it, whether it be the BARC who run the races or Gow or the MSA, but it needs to be stamped out PDQ.

This is why swapping paint, etc can be so dangerous and shouldn't be permitted in circuit racing.

i agree with mike here. yesterday was very difficult to watch. if things continue as they are in all classes then we’re going to see a very serious accident soon and not only would it be totally unnecessary and preventable it’s a really bad look with live tv coverage.

i don’t know whether there’s something inherant in the way the minis handle or whether some drivers think they have a god given max verstappen right to a piece of tarmac but it needs to stop. it’s not a majority, it’s a minority, and it’s sneaking into the juniors as well.

[Moneyseeker]

As we sadly saw at BH, the consequences of this accidents can be tragic and not always for the driver. In fact part of the problem is that the cars are now so safe that people are conditioned to the fact that they will just unbelt and walk away.

MSUK is ultimately responsible for licencing, so perhaps they should look at this with CoC's and encourage some more meaninful penalties - which would include more race bans and some licence removals.

The inherent problem with most pit straights is that the infrastrucure means there is little or no run off, so side by side contact as we tragically saw at BH, will leave no where for a car to go than other into the wall and then out of control where it could end up anywhere, or back onto the track in front of oncoming cars at high speed.

[redshoes]

https://www.btcc.net/2021/08/01/a-da...t-oulton-park/

Penalties

Race 1
Senna Proctor received a verbal reprimand for gaining an unfair advantage during an incident with Ollie Jackson

Race 3
Chris Smiley received a formal reprimand and had his license endorsed by the addition of two penalty points for an incident with Sam Osborne

https://www.barc.net/online_noticebo...y-31-august-1/
Full list of decisions for all races if anyone is interested.

[S griffin]

Didn't think the driving standards were that bad, although at Oulton you need to be a bit more respectful due to it's unforgiving nature

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by redshoes

https://www.btcc.net/2021/08/01/a-da...t-oulton-park/



https://www.barc.net/online_noticebo...y-31-august-1/
Full list of decisions for all races if anyone is interested.

Hmm could think of a fair few that could've been added to that list, to put it lightly!

[The Fat Clerk]

Interestingly, if you go to:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x2tjrrq0h...HlvjPvSIa?dl=0

you can see the 750MC's Judicial's from their meeting @ Cadwell over the weekend. Looks like they're a lot tougher than the BARC running the BTCC.

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by antnee

Just caught up on the weekend's action. I don't think there were actually many incidents which were bad, it was the knock-on effects which caused the carnage. Lots of silly taps, knocking cars into other people. We want close, exciting racing but the fine line was crossed this weekend causing lots of damage.

Plato showing his experience with the 3 corner overtake set up in R2 or R3 was excellent though, a few drivers need to learn that level of race craft.

Exactly.
If you want exciting racing rather than a procession in modern racing cars, you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth. There were no deliberately dirty moves that I saw on the TV, (and I say that as no fan of Jason Plato; but that incident in race 2 was not dirty driving at all). And yes, that was an excellent overtake in race 3 too.
You have to allow drivers to race and try moves. By doing that, it will go wrong sometimes but that is all part and parcel of motor racing.

Harry King in the support package is a great example of a driver that is prepared to try things, which is what excites members of the public. Racing drivers should not be discouraged from this.

This might sound heartless to some, but at the end of the day racing drivers know perfectly well the worst that can happen out on the track, and so do marshals that volunteer their weekend time free of charge to allow racing to take place, (which Rory Butcher put very well when interviewed by ITV after race 3).
Obviously, we should do all we can to make the cars as safe as possible and punish deliberately dirty, dangerous driving. But at the end of the day, it is motor racing

Some of the accidents were just basically bad luck. Carl Boardley's brakes failing for example.

Oulton is a track where overtaking is difficult and we have had some seriously dull races here in past years. That wasn't the case this weekend though

The snowflakes are the people that get so indignant and fickle at the first sign of an accident.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by mattcanary

The snowflakes are the people that get so indignant and fickle at the first sign of an accident.

I suggest that you try telling that to the family and friends of the marshal that lost his life at Brands on Saturday due just to an accident.

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I suggest that you try telling that to the family and friends of the marshal that lost his life at Brands on Saturday due just to an accident.

They may well be of that opinion themselves, for all you know.

Absolutely tragic for the marshal, and his family of course. But these terrible things can and do happen. Very very rarely thank goodness.

But it could also happen away from racing on a public road. Let;s not forget that.

[bella]

i think the problem is that lots of us watch close, exciting racing without any nerfing and shoulder barges. then we switch on touring cars/toca support series and wonder what on earth is happening.

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by bella

i think the problem is that lots of us watch close, exciting racing without any nerfing and shoulder barges. then we switch on touring cars/toca support series and wonder what on earth is happening.

Like I say, I did not see any deliberately dirty driving on Sunday, (certainly not in the BTCC races at any rate).
I did see lots of committed driving where people out there were trying to get the best result possible, Which is what I want to see when watching racing.
Within the safest environment possible, of course.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

i think the problem is that lots of us watch close, exciting racing without any nerfing and shoulder barges. then we switch on touring cars/toca support series and wonder what on earth is happening.

Maybe some of the TOCA series drivers should take a few hours out and watch the Silverstone Classic footage. Some exceptional driving in very difficult weather conditions in cars (some of which) can be a handful on a bone dry track. Very few incidents and some close commited racing.


Some of those Mini 'racers' shouldn't be on the grid, but looking at the damage bills, l imagine some of them won't be out again this year.

[houston]

Originally Posted by mattcanary

Like I say, I did not see any deliberately dirty driving on Sunday, (certainly not in the BTCC races at any rate).
I did see lots of committed driving where people out there were trying to get the best result possible, Which is what I want to see when watching racing.
Within the safest environment possible, of course.

Well said and one of the many reasons that I love to watch the BTCC. Committed drivers making split second decisions which, on the whole, are fair racing moves.

There will from time to time of course be some moves that are over zealous and that will end up in the driver being penalised. I don't believe that any driver deliberately goes out with the intention of putting anyone in danger, themselves included.

[CroftPilgrim]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Except if you read the rule books for this type of motor racing and you will find that the regulations state that it is a non-contact sport. You may well enjoy the sight of them biffing each other, but it is supposedly against the rules.

Except that in practice contact is tolerated, because you can't cut it out. There would have been a LOT of penalties this weekend if the rules were applied to the letter