Entry Levels at Historic Race Meetings

[Willmaz223]

Originally Posted by andy97

To be fair it was an MSVR meeting so you would expect them to favour their own series over “guests”.
I thought CTCRC normally raced with BARC?

Yes they do.

MSVR typically do allow others clubs that are part of a different organisation to race with them at a GP event such as Brands GP. CSCC have for a long time had a class each year on the GP as part of a msvr event.

[The Fat Clerk]

Not just racing getting low numbers.
The AMOC Sprint @ Curborough on the 18th has just 26 entries at the moment with just 7 of them being Astons- closing date to enter is this Friday (9th).

[coppice]

Not all bad - Croft Nostalgia had excellent grids last weekend , Harewood Hillclimb on 18 September already has 145 entries and a recent Autograss event I went to had nearly 500 .

Curborough - venue , cost , entry restrictions , location or timing ?

[andy97]

Decent grids for CSCC at Donington Park this weekend, I think. One of the Swinging Sixties races has 10 reserves! Smallest grid is 20.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by coppice

Curborough - venue , cost , entry restrictions , location or timing ?

Not convinced the reasons are particularly related to Curborough - there have been several well supported sprints there this year. The AMOC entry fee is also comparable to other clubs.

Instead, I think it is a case of a meeting that is relatively light on content - the only championships at the meeting are AMOC and the Lotus Elise one. Therefore, there is not a big pool of drivers looking to do the meeting; particularly, as the AMOC championship has been getting poor entries all year.

[Lancsbreaker]

Heading down to Donington to support CSCC's meeting this weekend. 370+ entries over the two days. Chairman acknowledges that some competitors finding things tougher, but still good support.

[GCCheddaris]

The HRDC's second Gerry Marshall Trophy race at Silverstone tomorrow has attracted twenty five Group One entries and seven Alfa Romeos in the 'Willhire' invitation class. This compares to a dozen qualifiers in the GTSCC Group One race at Castle Combe a few weeks ago and just seven Group one entries in tomorrow's HTCC race also at Silverstone tomorrow.

[rbs]

There is only 12 cars entered in the GT open race at Silverstone today and 2 of them were damaged yesterday and will be non starters.

[GCCheddaris]

And the Jaguar Classic race looks a bit thin for an hour long race. HRDC's other races are really well supported although the fifteen Alfas have been amalgamated with the All Stars.

Apart from the Jaguars most of MRL's races are well supported (especially the Pall Mall Cup) although the HTCC race includes the eight Lotus Cortinas from the U2TC series as well as the seven Group One cars while there are just two cars from the early Group A classes.

It looks as though it should be a good weekend's racing so if you're there in any capacity have a great time and hopefully stay dry !

[Willmaz223]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

It looks as though it should be a good weekend's racing so if you're there in any capacity have a great time and hopefully stay dry !

It's a cracking event as I went last year. Its a nice change an event on the GP and the Wing being used from a spectators pov. Good way to end a season though the entry has decreased a little on quality and quantity probably due to the high volume of events recently.

[Mike Crow]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

The HRDC's second Gerry Marshall Trophy race at Silverstone tomorrow has attracted twenty five Group One entries and seven Alfa Romeos in the 'Willhire' invitation class. This compares to a dozen qualifiers in the GTSCC Group One race at Castle Combe a few weeks ago and just seven Group one entries in tomorrow's HTCC race also at Silverstone tomorrow.

I really hope this series takes off after a good start this year. Even though there were only a few cars at Castle Combe they looked and sounded wonderful and the racing was very close. HRDC certainly seem to be doing something right.

[Peter Mallett]

It was the GTSCC at Combe.

[GCCheddaris]

The entry at Castle Combe may not have been huge but, as Mike said above, the cars looked good, sounded good and provided great racing all the way down the field. Peter Fisk apparently drove his Opel Commodore to the circuit. Hope no one got too close to him at the traffic lights !

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, but the point is, it wasn't HRDC at Combe, it was GTSCC who have frankly moved out of their comfort zone with the touring cars. Speaking to some drivers, they couldn't see any reason to enter Combe due to the fees. MRL appears to be moving away from the Tony Dron Trophy thus Gp 1.5 drivers, appear to have found a good home with reasonable entry fees. Long may it continue.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes, but the point is, it wasn't HRDC at Combe, it was GTSCC who have frankly moved out of their comfort zone with the touring cars. Speaking to some drivers, they couldn't see any reason to enter Combe due to the fees. MRL appears to be moving away from the Tony Dron Trophy thus Gp 1.5 drivers, appear to have found a good home with reasonable entry fees. Long may it continue.

Not sure if you were referring to my post Peter, but I know the Group 1.5 race at Castle Combe was organised by the GTSCC and that you also mentioned a little while ago that the GTSCC race was more expensive than the HRDC's race hence the smaller grid at Castle Combe.

It is great news that the HRDC have started their series and I am sure that next year's series will have more races and go from strength to strength. The only concern I have is that Group 1.5 reliability appears to be something of a problem at the moment with the Castle Combe race having 12 qualifiers, 10 starters and 6 finishers and today's race at Silverstone having 25 qualifiers, 24 starters with 16 cars finishing. Perhaps 2 x 20 minute races rather than 1 x 45 minute race would be better.

[Peter Mallett]

When I raced the Rover, I reckoned on a podium every three attempts. We think these cars are pretty standard but in fact they tend to be very temperamental. I went to Spa one year and broke my diff in the first lap of qually. We got a standard road car axle from the UK and I finished second in class in the night race, but the axle was trashed by the end. At Donington my diff cooler sprang a leak and just as I took the class lead, it broke. Hey ho. So, they are not as standard as we would think. Not sure 2 shorter races would actually do anything for reliability but I take your point.

[GCCheddaris]

My thoughts regarding having a double header with two shorter races instead of one long race is that if you hit a problem towards the end of a shorter race you could perhaps get to the end of the race and fix the problem in time for your second race. With a longer race it's likely that you would have to retire and the second driver wouldn't get to drive.

[Peter Mallett]

True, but from experience it matters little unless the problem is very minor.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

My thoughts regarding having a double header with two shorter races instead of one long race is that if you hit a problem towards the end of a shorter race you could perhaps get to the end of the race and fix the problem in time for your second race. With a longer race it's likely that you would have to retire and the second driver wouldn't get to drive.

What about the potential strain on the drivetrain from having to do two race starts?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by andy97

What about the potential strain on the drivetrain from having to do two race starts?

Easily solved with rolling starts.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Easily solved with rolling starts.

Yes, I suppose so, and have done a fair few but I often think it just means that the first corner accident happens 20 mph faster!

No easy answer.

[Paul D]

Not a massive fan of rolling starts personally - have done both multiple times.

I like the extra element provided by a standing start, as it takes a certain amount of finesse to get off the line cleanly with just the right amount of revs, clutch & wheelspin. And it always surprises me how rubbish at it many competitors are - I nearly always make up a good few places on a standing start, often getting past much quicker cars!

Conversely, on a rolling start, there's not a lot to get wrong - as long as you're in the correct gear when the lights go out, then all you do is floor it. But you can, however, be hampered by those in front if they don't keep a tight formation, costing you ground on those ahead. It's also not uncommon for some cars to be out of position before the lights go green.

Yes, I know that in such circumstances the starter is supposed to abort the start and send us around again, but in my experience, at club events, that rarely happens - possibly as a result of pressure not to drop behind schedule? But in any case, I've definitely been involved in some rolling starts where things weren't as they should have been, and we were just left to get on with it, and no penalties afterwards either.

In a standing start, move by any significant amount before the lights go out and you're penalised - which is only how it ought to be.

I understand why rolling starts are used - especially when dealing with older, potentially fragile historic cars. But for me, I'd choose standing start every time.

[Peter Mallett]

I don't mind either but I do know that at least two drive shafts in my cars have distorted due to standing starts.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by andy97

Yes, I suppose so, and have done a fair few but I often think it just means that the first corner accident happens 20 mph faster!

No easy answer.

A point similar to what I was going to make. They tried rolling starts for the same reason on the BTCC (1989 I think) and a lot of the drivers commented then that the main difference was that they arrived at the first corner a lot closer together, and going a lot faster!

[Peter Mallett]

The 6hrs is a rolling start and as a driver in a.minnow I'm pretty far down the grid. In my first attempt I was just changing up to 4th going into Blanchiment to the start, when the entire grid in front stopped. Fortunately I managed to avoid the rear of the car in front (just). So it's not just the first corner that can be a problem.