Unification Near?

[macdaddy]

My personal opinion...
The IRL chassis are downright ugly. One of my favourite aspects of OWheel is the aesthetics. And, although I could live with NA engines, my heart is with the turbo.

[macdaddy]

Funny, in that Fogelhund and I were thinking and typing the same thing simultaneously!

[Mags]

I've been saying since Long Beach Champ Cars is dead. I hope this is indeed going to happen. I'll be the first to throw a party!
However, if TG is around, I won't be.

[Mags]

Originally posted by macdaddy
My personal opinion...
The IRL chassis are downright ugly. One of my favourite aspects of OWheel is the aesthetics. And, although I could live with NA engines, my heart is with the turbo.

You have that right! I get all misty when I'm walking down pit lane on race day

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by Mags
I liked the comment about that RP wants this so bad it's scarey. I know that there are serious problems in the IRL, but I didn't think it was that bad.

It is very likely that this is coming from one of his sponsors or Toyota. It isn't that there is serious issues with IRL on its own, as much as there are serious issues with Open Wheel racing as a whole. The deterioration of Open Wheel racing, both IRL and Champcars is approaching the point that the cost is exceeding the benefit. (Ok, perhaps well past that point)

Given all of the events surrounding the CART/OWRS hearings, and what has transpired since..its obvious that both series entrants would be better off with a merger.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Given all of the events surrounding the CART/OWRS hearings, and what has transpired since..its obvious that both series entrants would be better off with a merger.

But, better for whom..... Champ Cars or the IRL?? Could it be the pathetic showing the last few years of the Indy 500 and not making the 33 has finally done TG in?? That the big manufacturers have finally seen the light? I know for a fact Honda has been begging to come back to CART since the day they left.

[Kicking-back]

Better for the fans if the series get together.

If things continue as they are there won't be any series at all.

[Fogelhund]

Mags - TG will be around. You'll likely see a board of directors. Perhaps Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, TG, Haas, Kalkohoven, Gentilozzi, Forsythe.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Mags
I know for a fact Honda has been begging to come back to CART since the day they left.

1) That seems unlikely

2) There is no CART any more

[Mags]

Then I won't be.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
1) That seems unlikely

2) There is no CART any more

I was told by Pook this very fact last year.

[Fogelhund]

Better for everybody. Better for the fans first, the best drivers in one series, with a balanced (assumption) schedule of Ovals and Road/Street.

Better for the series. - Stability and the promotion of one series is easier to sell to sponsors, manufacturers, tracks....

As K-b mentions, neither series is doing very well on its own... together perhaps they have a chance.

[Mags]

Not if TG is there. It will just be going down the same path.

[Kicking-back]

Mags, clearly you're never going to get over your hatred of Tony George, but people are going to have to rise above petty squabbles if single-seater racing in the USA is to become great again.

[MLM]

I agree, K-b, especially with the last part of your sentence, IMO.

[Fogelhund]

I agree with K-b as well.

Either TG is involved, or Open Wheel deteriorates further until one or both series fail, and the remaining (IF) is very weak. Which is a better prospect?

Certainly, I agree, this is going back to the same path... the path that worked.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Mags, clearly you're never going to get over your hatred of Tony George, but people are going to have to rise above petty squabbles if single-seater racing in the USA is to become great again.

You don't get the point I am trying to make - as long as that man is around NOTHING WILL CHANGE. You do not keep the same personel around that rotted the place. There is a reason open-wheeled racing died, AND TONY GEORGE IS IT.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by Mags
There is a reason open-wheeled racing died, AND TONY GEORGE IS IT.

A factor yes, the reason, No.

He could become one of the reasons its resurrected too. Not that it would make him a hero.

[jjspierx]

Mags knows whats up...You can try and say that TG wasn't the issue and that many things contributed to the fall of Open-wheel racing, but the bottom line, is TG drove the nail into the coffin and caused a rift that has lasted almost a decade that almost single-handedly destroyed open-wheel racing in the US. With him in any sort of leadership role invovled in a unified series, it is destined to fail. He still has the ideal that Open-wheel racing IS the Indy 500, and every other race is just support for it. Sure TG tries to convince us that he wants road races, and that he wants races in Mexico and Canada, but I don't believe it. He's pressured by the big wigs in the IRL to say those things, and he also knows it puts pressure on OWRS.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
A factor yes, the reason, No.

He could become one of the reasons its resurrected too. Not that it would make him a hero.

If a unification happens it will not be a direct result of anything he has to say but rather the result of many other people's hard work to make a compromise and Tony George reluctantly agreeing because he won't have much of a choice. If a deal can be worked out where OWRS and the big teams in IRL agree, TG will have little choice but to follow along, or risk losing everything.

[sgjb]

Mags,

If Honda has been begging to come back to CART ever since they left, why would they offer so many teams money to leave CART. Seems strange to beg to get in a series with one hand and playing an instrumental role in trying to kill it with the other.

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by jjspierx
He still has the ideal that Open-wheel racing IS the Indy 500, and every other race is just support for it.

It has been since 1911. At one point it was even deemed so important FIA decided to include it on the Formula 1 calender, awarding points toward the championship, despite the fact that almost no regular Formula 1 drivers and teams even tried to qualify (bar a few, rare exceptions).

Also, what do you think the non-diehard racing fan out there recognizes the most? The Indy 500 or the whatever-it-was-called at Fundidora Park? The Indy 500 or the race at Pikes Peak (note that I compared to races in BOTH championships)?

I want to see a unified series as much as anyone (although I could most certainly live without much of the arrogance and 'elitism' the most diehard Champ Car fans never cease to spew out, one of the reasons I started to get tired of being a Champ Car fan in the first place although I still am - barely), but I believe eliminating Tony George won't be the easy answer, and I believe he should remain a part of it. HOWEVER, I do not believe he should be the outward face, nor do I believe he should make the day-to-day decisions. No, George should be the Bill France of open-wheel and let someone else run the show and be the outward face while he concentrates on running IMS.

Do you think NASCAR got so successful by having a bunch of hard-headed egos trying to run things? No, they have become successful because they had a dictator running the show with an iron-first. And don't give me the fantasy, the wishful thinking that it was the split that made NASCAR strong - it was on its way up, gaining momentum, well before the split was even first thought of in 1994.

All work and no dinner makes rustyfan a very rant-hungry racefan

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by Mags
I know for a fact Honda has been begging to come back to CART since the day they left.

Funny they recently extended their contract with the IndyCar Series through 2006 then.

And that is a fact.

[Mags]

Originally posted by rustyfan
Funny they recently extended their contract with the IndyCar Series through 2006 then.

And that is a fact.

Now. I'm talking 2 years before.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by jjspierx
If a unification happens it will not be a direct result of anything he has to say but rather the result of many other people's hard work to make a compromise and Tony George reluctantly agreeing because he won't have much of a choice. If a deal can be worked out where OWRS and the big teams in IRL agree, TG will have little choice but to follow along, or risk losing everything.

That is one possible scenario, but not based upon anything in reality. (Nor is any other scenario either).

We know Penske talked with the three amigos. Do you really think he went there on his own accord, without Honda/Toyota, other team owners, or TG knowing and approving of it? It is the IRL that has the track contracts & engine contracts to make this happen, and TG still holds the I500 randsom. Believe me, he won't be strong armed into this, and I'm sure he has been involved in this process at some level. (He's alredy proven he'll go off on his own if needed)