hans device in club racing

[Al Weyman]

I guess it is a bit like open faced and full faced helmets. i was always surprized full face were not compulsory as they must surely offer better protection but as some guys can't get on with a full face it is left down to the individual. Maybe more research and development should be made into a less obtrusive forward head restrain that was built into the drivers seat so that the device was part of the car more than a device the driver would need personally with different models for different types of car that he intended to drive. Surely if the problem as I read it is the forward motion of the head after a front imact exasperated by the weight of the helmet could not some simple clip on restrain strap fitted to a high backed 'winged' seat and clipped to studs on the drivers helmet do a similiar job.

[Chris Y]

Al, I'd agree with you, but of course you have to cater for the 'emergency exit' situations, where a driver needs to make a fast exist from a flaming vehicle for example, and may not have the presence of mind to undo the device from the seat - this is where the HANS (and Hutchens, I believe) scores a bit, since it releases the driver when the belts are undone. If there's extra straps to release, then it may become difficult to exit the car under pressure, particularly with gloves on.

I don't know what the solution is, but you're right - I'd have thought a device could be mounted to the seat, rather than the driver.

[StephenRae]

I had a good think about a method of restraining the head with a strap to the headrest, there could be a loop of webbing over a vertical post, which would take care of getting out of the car quickly. I dismissed this as it wouldn't do what the hans does which is to maintain the head's position relative to the rest of you.

[ss_collins]

very intersting article in Motorsport News on the subject in the current issue - highlights the problems that could occur if using one in a rally

[1200Datto27]

I think that the issue with attaching a helmet to a fixed point in the car, such as a seat, is that in an impact, the seat (or other mount point) will not omove, or move in a different way. This could lead to issues where when the person moves forward on impact as the belts stretch, instead of the head being stablised in it's movement with the body (HANS), the head is left behind, and results in injuries like those inflicted on someone who is hung.

[ss_collins]

There was a suggestion that a net would be put between the driver a co driver to prevent them hitting each other, however the net would be quick release, as would be the hans etc...

Now for me being a rally type this raises a saftey concern, I know of a number of shunts in rallying (most noably one involving McRae) where one of the crew has had to remove his helmet to escape the car, now thats not a quick process, add on a hans then it even slower, then a quick release net....

now imagine the car is filling with fuel or water, there may not be anyone else within 500m to a Km of you to help. You want to be out as quick as possible - with hans and a net that could cause and equal number of risks to those it solves.

As I say there is a good peice in MN about it.

[1200Datto27]

It takes two seconds to unclip a HANS device from a helmet, it would take longer to undo the chinstrap and unplug the radio leads, but I guess that those small considerations aren't worthy of a mention, let along that the person wearing the HANS, may, by virtue of said device, actually be capable of getting out of the vehicle themselves.

[ss_collins]

Its not the two second thats the problem its the cumulative time to escape with nets hans radios cges doors and all with the car on its lid and on its side - after all a rally car on its side is extremeley common

[Anuauto]

Reality check. Even a modprod car with standard shell, leave alone a roadgoing car with standard shell, does not even have to be fitted with any form of roll cage in sprints and hillclimbs. I think advocating HANS is somewhat premature against the status quo....

[luke]

In karting there popular but I don't use them there anoying.

[Red Baron]

Firstly, let me say that I am not a race driver and therefore have no first hand experience of using a HANS in anger.

I am however a member of a rescue crew and we have looked at them in training with a view to how we would remove them if we needed to extricate a driver that wore one (incidentally, we do not expect them to prove to be a problem nor get in the way)

I have also attended incidents, unfortuantely some fatal, where it has been suggested to me that the driver may have survived had he been wearing a HANS (although as far as I am aware that is speculative).

With this knowledge and having seen the programme about Dale Earnhardts accident, I am of the opinion that if I were to race I would MOST DEFINATELY use one. Furthermore, were my partner or a family member to race I would also encourage them to use one. I would feel much happier knowing that they were taking all the safety precautions possible.

I do not think they should be made mandatory because of course it is down to personal opinion and choice. However, my opinion is that I can't see why anyone would risk racing without one.

[ss_collins]

Anu check the blue book - standard shells don't need cages to race either... if you don't believe me its in the book.

[MMiller]

luke-

The hans isn't used in karting.. it would be pointless.. you probably are referring to the "neck brace" though.. which really isn't a neckbrace at all, more of a pad to protect the collar bone.


As far as unclipping the HANS..you don't need to. As far as I know.. to get out of a vehicle, whether it be a sedan or a formula car.. the hans is only attached to you and the helmet.. and you can get in and out of the vehicle w/o unstrapping anything. If you must get out.. you can.. the hans only makes it difficult to move your neck/head in the same range as you could without.

cheers.

Marc, don't put your URL in every post, and read your PMs

[JimW]

Originally posted by Red Baron
. . .
I have also attended incidents, unfortunately some fatal, where it has been suggested to me that the driver may have survived had he been wearing a HANS (although as far as I am aware that is speculative).

. . .

Until recently I was unconvinced but some recent incidents I have attended (like Red Baron, I sometimes work on rescue units) are beginning to alter my approach.

Since it is not possible to get all drivers to wear gloves or even to refrain from rolling their sleeves up, I'm not sure that it will be feasible to require the Hans.

Wearing my libertarian hat, I'm not sure I would want to even try and make it compulsory. (See the signature below.)

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

Originally posted by Red Baron
. . .
I have also attended incidents, unfortunately some fatal, where it has been suggested to me that the driver may have survived had he been wearing a HANS (although as far as I am aware that is speculative).

. . .

Until recently I was unconvinced but some incidents I have attended (like Red Baron, I sometimes work on rescue units) are beginning to alter my approach. It may well be a good and wise thing.

Since it is not possible to get all drivers to wear gloves or even to refrain from rolling their sleeves up, I'm not sure that it will be feasible to require the Hans.

Wearing my libertarian hat, I'm not sure I would want to even try and make it compulsory. (See the signature below.)

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

.

[ss_collins]

I fully agree with JimW and his sig...

[Anuauto]

Your point SS_C? I never said they were. My point, effectively supporting your line, is that even discussing mandating HANS when cages are not always mandatory is a waste of space.
Matching safety aspects/items is essential. Whilst I wouldn't compete without a cage now, I have walked away from a circuit shunt only because I was not using full harness belts without a cage, at a time when cages were not universal in racing and were very new to my main activity of rallying.
Personaly I do believe a basic rear cage should be required in all "fast" motorsport, even if it does stop casual entrants in sprints etc. Until it is there must be no serious talk of mandating full harness belts or HANS. I also consider it lunacy to mandate flame proof overalls in hill climbs but not a basic rear hoop. It smacks of "cosmetic" safety. (I have never seen a hill climb shunt where there was not a marshal alongside before the driver knew he had come to a halt, leave alone thought of getting out).

Oi, whats happened to the image "browse"?

[acf8181]

does anyone happen to know if an OMP integrale formula helmet can be equipt with hans mounting pins?

[Al Weyman]

I see Safety Devices are offereing them for £499 + vat in MSN this week plus free stud fitting and advice so they are coming down to a realistic price.

[MMiller]

acf... just about ANY helmet can be equipped with the hans mounts... you can even install them yourself.

mm

[Kicking-back]

I wonder if some of those who say they'd never use HANS are merely guilty of some sort of "macho posturing".

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I wonder if some of those who say they'd never use HANS are merely guilty of some sort of "macho posturing".

No, not macho posturing
1. Very overly priced at the moment but they should come down hopefully.
2. I thought they were big bulky things but I saw one of the F BMW drivers who had fallen off at Brands today carrying one and it didn't look large at all, not too bad so maybe my mind may be changed.

[ss_collins]

acf... just about ANY helmet can be equipped with the hans mounts... you can even install them yourself.

Not with the intercom in the way!

[acf8181]

i suspected any newish helmet could be converted...just got it into my mind that there may have been a chance of the mounts ripping a chunk off the helmet if it wasn't designed for them (or am i taking nonsense?!)