[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mike Fuller has just tweeted the following:" ACO2014 engine rules looking like mirror of F1 2014 rules: 1.6L, V6, turbo. Haven't we been down this path before ??".

That means no hybrids, no alternative fuels, no rotaries nor all-electric prototypes, and no big engines for them to put on? C'mon, this will kill those prototypes for sure!

Bernie: Just as planned!

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mike Fuller has just tweeted the following:" ACO2014 engine rules looking like mirror of F1 2014 rules: 1.6L, V6, turbo. Haven't we been down this path before ??".

[Deleted]

Bravo FIA, bravo... everything always starts to go downhill once you step in

[Fogelhund]

Well... I guess these small engines are going to be relevant... Not particularly interesting, but relevant. The sad part of this is that small high revving engines are going to heavily favour the manufacturers, while the boutique engine shops may have problems in comparison. Can I have back my six liter V10's and V12's please?

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

This... very much this... It all seemed to be heading in the right direction, the formation of the world championship, the introduction of hybrids, the promise of returning to a fuel cap formula like the group C cars had. Then the FIA decides they want to see the same engines as the F1 cars have in LMP's and *poof* gone is the beauty and back is the crap they call FIA dictatorship...

[Speed-King]

Playing devil's advocate here for a moment:

It makes sense for Porsche/Audi if one of them is going to go to F1 in the not so distant future.

And it also might help to bring in Nissan, who could share engine developement costs with Renault.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Playing devil's advocate here for a moment:

It makes sense for Porsche/Audi if one of them is going to go to F1 in the not so distant future.

The funny thing is though that the entire Volkswagen Group made it repeatedly clear they are not going to enter Formula 1. Not now and not in the near future.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by NelisB

This... very much this... It all seemed to be heading in the right direction, the formation of the world championship, the introduction of hybrids, the promise of returning to a fuel cap formula like the group C cars had. Then the FIA decides they want to see the same engines as the F1 cars have in LMP's and *poof* gone is the beauty and back is the crap they call FIA dictatorship...

This has been going in the wrong direction for several years now, at least in my opinion. The premise of a world championship is the right thing, but the implementation, and subsequent rules have been a disaster.

[Mal]

I hope this proves to be wrong, but if not it is clear that all the FIA want to do is veto sportscars in favour of F1 because they can see the manufacturers migrating to P1.

[ForzaPorsche]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mike Fuller has just tweeted the following:" ACO2014 engine rules looking like mirror of F1 2014 rules: 1.6L, V6, turbo. Haven't we been down this path before ??".

Wow, just wow... Keep that artificial crap in F1, please...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by ForzaPorsche

Wow, just wow... Keep that artificial crap in F1, please...

Just interesting how a modern small capacity turbo engine can be articificial in one series but in another series same or similar small capacity turbo engine is super road-relevant and not artificial at all (despite of BoP etc).

[ForzaPorsche]

Originally Posted by deggis

Just interesting how a modern small capacity turbo engine can be articificial in one series but in another series same or similar small capacity turbo engine is super road-relevant and not artificial at all (despite of BoP etc).

I have nothing against small displacement turbos, not at all. But restricting the entire LMP class to such engines would be madness IMO and goes against the very ethos of sportscar racing.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mike Fuller has just tweeted the following:" ACO2014 engine rules looking like mirror of F1 2014 rules: 1.6L, V6, turbo. Haven't we been down this path before ??".

A semi confirmation that this is indeed the plan of the FIA.

Q: (Sam Collins - Racecar Engineer) Question for Jean-Francois, can you update us on the progress of your new engine, and also with the ACO changing the Le Mans prototype regulations to allow complete Formula One powertrains from 2014, is that a new area you can use for testing, with the testing ban in Formula One?
Jean-Francois Caubet (Renault Sport F1): I think today for the new engine, for ’14 we are now on schedule. We need to respect also the budget from Renault. We will be on time. Is it very high technology so it is quite tough development. We have big help from Renault, I think more than 45 people coming from Renault to help us on the electrics side, the electronics and turbo side. I think we will be ready, in the same philosophy that we have for the future, around November or December next year, so we are not asking for testing before.

Q: (Sam Collins - Racecar Engineer) And for Le Mans? The ACO has announced they are going to accept a full Formula One powertrain, including gearbox, engine, everything from 2014 onwards for Le Mans prototypes - so is that another market you could move into and is it something you are looking to do?
Jean-Francois Caubet (Renault Sport F1): I don’t think so.

source: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...2/5/13384.html

[Spyderman]

If true, I wonder if they will allow twin turbos?
Remember that the 1.5L V6 Twin Turbo TAG-Porsche engine developed 960bhp in race trim and 1,100bhp in qualifying.
I'm not suggesting that we will see anything along those lines, but the potential is still there just as long as they allow reasonable turbo boost.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

If true, I wonder if they will allow twin turbos?
Remember that the 1.5L V6 Twin Turbo TAG-Porsche engine developed 960bhp in race trim and 1,100bhp in qualifying.
I'm not suggesting that we will see anything along those lines, but the potential is still there just as long as they allow reasonable turbo boost.

I hope that the energy restriction is the only engine restriction

[alexkiller8]

need to remember that in f1 and group C mid '80 the boost setting was free, for this reason during qualifying the cars were able to reach 1000hp, while during the race because of reliability and consumes the engines were set 30-40% less powerfull.
I hope that a f1/WEC engine spec sharing won't happen anymore, but if this will happen forget to see turbo engines much more powerfull than the actual 2.0 ones.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

need to remember that in f1 and group C mid '80 the boost setting was free, for this reason during qualifying the cars were able to reach 1000hp, while during the race because of reliability and consumes the engines were set 30-40% less powerfull.
I hope that a f1/WEC engine spec sharing won't happen anymore, but if this will happen forget to see turbo engines much more powerfull than the actual 2.0 ones.

Actually the turbo boost for the TAG-Porsche was set at 4.0 for racing trim.
If the ACO would go with.... lets say 3.0 then it would still be quite interesting.
Anyway, I suspect engines will put out about 650hp+ KERS.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Actually the turbo boost for the TAG-Porsche was set at 4.0 for racing trim.
If the ACO would go with.... lets say 3.0 then it would still be quite interesting.
Anyway, I suspect engines will put out about 650hp+ KERS.

me too think that the new 1.6 turbo engines will gain more torque but won't reach more than 700hp because of a lower revlimit, speaking about f1; if these engines will be used also for lmp i'm sure that because of bop and power control, will be still used restrictors.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Actually the turbo boost for the TAG-Porsche was set at 4.0 for racing trim.
If the ACO would go with.... lets say 3.0 then it would still be quite interesting.
Anyway, I suspect engines will put out about 650hp+ KERS.

In F1 the target is around 600, with KERSes making up about 150 so overall power output remains at the same level. A year ago when this was announced, only revs were limited to 15,000 but no mention of boost limits.

[joeb]

I would just like to point out that we have yet to see the final regs published, so try not to get too worked up. I know the information came from a well informed source, but im not going to rush to criticize until the announcement comes in a few weeks.

After all there were rumours a few weeks ago saying engine regs would be opened up with an energy formula applied. So is the new rumour more acurate because it is newer, or is it just newer?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by joeb

I would just like to point out that we have yet to see the final regs published, so try not to get too worked up. I know the information came from a well informed source, but im not going to rush to criticize until the announcement comes in a few weeks.

After all there were rumours a few weeks ago saying engine regs would be opened up with an energy formula applied. So is the new rumour more acurate because it is newer, or is it just newer?

And not only few weeks ago but pretty much for the past two years. If this turns out to be true, then something must have changed quite quickly and recently. I don't believe this yet.

[FstrthnU]

How do we know this will be the ONLY option? it could just be one configuration available

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A semi confirmation that this is indeed the plan of the FIA.

No? Accepting an engine vs. adopting full regs.

One could think that if Collins had heard the same thing Mike apparently has, then there would have been a newsstory already.

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

How do we know this will be the ONLY option? it could just be one configuration available

Exactly...

Still this sounds so odd because this is the first time this rumor has come up. There was that 5.0 L displacement limit thing (Autosport) and that Cotton column in RCE which seemed to draw too many conclusions (post #1939 above), but those were completely different details.

[MulsanneMike]

12 hours later and the only thing I can add is that there is slightly more to what's going on than simply F1 engines for sportscars. The architecture will be the same apparently (1.6L. V6, turbo), beyond that no idea about KERS or EERS or diesel/alternate fuels, consumption regulations, fuel restrictors, etc. But it would seem the idea of "open" engine regulations is definitely gone (did we really think it would last though?).

The REALLY odd thing is that NO ONE is wanting to discuss this, even off the record. The FIA has brought a lack of transparency, and that's really unfortunate. I mean it's not like we don't already know there will be a distinct conflict of interest with whatever decision they make...;0)

[chernaudi]

So the FIA is going down the NASCAR route--in more ways than one it seems (namely the lack of transparency).