Rosberg vs Hamilton

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I never said discussing any of these issues was embarrassing. In this instance, the issue itself is embarrassing. As is the reaction of the team and certain pundits, chief among them Eddie Jordan.

my bad for misreading it. sorry

[OZ_HCR32]

So after listening to SkysportF1 the past few races; are they trying to sour the waters? Their coverage of ROsberg continues to be rather "sensationalised".

The latest example was commentary on Rosberg's radio chatter with his engineer in FP2. Ted saying that Rosberg is the only driver that gets laptime advice-driving suggestions from his engineers. I think Rosberg asked where do I find lap time?

So they then start discussing how it makes him look less than competent etc asking the pit wall? I hear such radio talk all the time. They made the statement that "Lewis doesnt need such guidance" which is a joke as you hear his team update him every race on where he is losing lap speed to Rosberg. And in races you hear the team talk him into his pace and gap/points of the track that he is surrendering lap speed.

So, think I am going to have to find some BBC coverage

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

So after listening to SkysportF1 the past few races; are they trying to sour the waters? Their coverage of ROsberg continues to be rather "sensationalised".

The latest example was commentary on Rosberg's radio chatter with his engineer in FP2. Ted saying that Rosberg is the only driver that gets laptime advice-driving suggestions from his engineers. I think Rosberg asked where do I find lap time?

So they then start discussing how it makes him look less than competent etc asking the pit wall? I hear such radio talk all the time. They made the statement that "Lewis doesnt need such guidance" which is a joke as you hear his team update him every race on where he is losing lap speed to Rosberg. And in races you hear the team talk him into his pace and gap/points of the track that he is surrendering lap speed.

So, think I am going to have to find some BBC coverage

Don't forget that Sky is to Formula One what the Daily Mail is to news.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

transcript from todays press conference.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...4/9/16292.html

Just how much the media has been whipping this up I think is shown by this in the article posted by Chillibowl.

Q: (Ralf Bach - Sport Bild) Nico, is it right that Niki Lauda talked to you in the week after the Spa race and apologised for the interviews he gave directly after the race at Spa?
NR: Yes, it's true, yes, and that was a nice gesture of his which I have accepted, fully accepted of course, and also there, it's a thing of the past.

[Paradise City]

Wolff and Eddie Jordan are to blame. TW originally said he was "upset" because Rosberg violated some internal boundary within the team. He even said initially the public fall-out was secondary to that main gripe. The hecklers and Eddie Jordan doing his impromptu podium Jeremy Kyle act must have thrown Wolff off and suddenly Rosberg spends the week methodologically apologising to everyone under the sun.

Yeah, Murdoch outlets are the tabloid outlets but that said, they have an entire channel devoted to F1, they gotta fill it with something, so whatever drama is on the boil, is going to dominate their output. Part and parcel of having an exclusive F1 channel is that kind of reporting overkill.

[Tourer]

So we had the two of them race hard at Monza - LH put NR under pressure and this time NR blinked. Good stuff, the way it should be from both of them. Sometimes LH won't stand up to pressure either but the point is, they raced for the outcome and as a result, this thread has been pretty quiet.

[chillibowl]

Nico made two rather alarming and uncharacteristic errors today. Was he thinking about LH closing the gap or was he thinking about what would happen if/when LH caught up?

Is it possible that by having NR spend the past weeks apologizing and encouraging discussions on social media, Merc have made this a bigger issue for Nico?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Nico made two rather alarming and uncharacteristic errors today. Was he thinking about LH closing the gap or was he thinking about what would happen if/when LH caught up?

Is it possible that by having NR spend the past weeks apologizing and encouraging discussions on social media, Merc have made this a bigger issue for Nico?

Not a bigger issue for Nico.

Just a bigger issue for those of us with nothing else to do. We make it bigger to ourselves than it is to them

[Paradise City]

Ted talked about Rosberg getting docked 200,000 from his wages.

Whatever about that, the team did punish him and that would be an isolating experience. Was he subsequently distracted on the track? It's not impossible.

[VIVA GT]

I saw Nico in a different light on Sunday.
First of all his 'slip of concentration/not wanting a square tyre' (twice) meaning he went straight on at the chicane didn't fit in with my opinion of him being a calculating chap.
I also thought his behaviour after the race a little strange too. Before the podium he was chatting to his engineer (and Massa) in Italian (or was this just practice for later?) and ignored Lewis (who similarly ignored him). Then, on the podium, after the champagne spraying he offered his bottle towards Lewis in a matey 'Cheers' kind of way, and I thought "that's nice, no apparent hard feelings there". Then in what I thought was a masterstroke in trying to undermine Lewis, he replied to the crowd in Italian after Lewis had conducted his interview with Jean Alesi in English. All the while Nico seemed to have s smug look on his face (but this is only MY interpretation).
Good old Lewis him back however by then thanking the crowd in Italian.

[Aysedasi]

I thought the Italian conversation in the pre-podium room appeared to be absolutely deliberate. Having said that, I don't speak Italian so have no idea whether what was said wasn't something he wanted Lewis to know or he was just making a real point of having no conversation with Lewis. The latter I guess, as Lewis will no doubt by now have a translation of whatever was said anyway. I thought it was plain weird, to be honest. I could understand Nico talking to Seb in German, say, but this seemed really quite strange. More mind games, I guess, but I doubt Lewis was worried much, having just soundly beaten Nico....

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I think he just got stressed. He had an opportunity to dig an even deeper hole for Lewis in the championship and was probably too aware of it too early. And when Lewis proved he had him beat this weekend Nico just buckled. Lewis ahead in the mindgame, for once. Playing to the crowd in a way where Lewis couldn't participate was the only thing left he could do to not get completely squashed.

[chillibowl]

but how well did his play to the crowd work? the boos were apparent even in that massive throng of people. i feel as though speaking to them in Italian was an attempt to mollify the crowd but it didnt help and. LH turned it around with just two words of Italian.

and it is not just boos on the podium, for the past two thurdays Merc have hosted an twitter forum which essentially and open airing of grievances in which NR takes much of the blame and almost all of the hate.

while its fair to say this issue is something being amplified by fans and media but imo it is now having a very real effect on the title protagonists.

this is the power of social media and Merc have let the proverbial genie out of the cell phone.

tin hat time but this works because LH is all over twitter and instagram. he is relatable and his camp have taken great pains to paint him as the 'poor kid against the world' and done so at the expense of casting NR as a villain.

some might think this a ridiculous suggestion but we often talk about one athlete having a physical or psychological edge...for this day and age, i think we should add to that the concept of having a 'Social' edge.

[Paradise City]

In fairness, it doesn't take much to get the Italians to heckle just following a very grim day with Ferrari.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but how well did his play to the crowd work? the boos were apparent even in that massive throng of people. i feel as though speaking to them in Italian was an attempt to mollify the crowd but it didnt help and. LH turned it around with just two words of Italian.

and it is not just boos on the podium, for the past two thurdays Merc have hosted an twitter forum which essentially and open airing of grievances in which NR takes much of the blame and almost all of the hate.

while its fair to say this issue is something being amplified by fans and media but imo it is now having a very real effect on the title protagonists.

this is the power of social media and Merc have let the proverbial genie out of the cell phone.

tin hat time but this works because LH is all over twitter and instagram. he is relatable and his camp have taken great pains to paint him as the 'poor kid against the world' and done so at the expense of casting NR as a villain.

some might think this a ridiculous suggestion but we often talk about one athlete having a physical or psychological edge...for this day and age, i think we should add to that the concept of having a 'Social' edge.

Oh, I agree that it didn't work out for him. Having Felipe up there with them made it even more obvious you need more than language to sway the crowd. I don't know that Instagram matters, but here's how I see it: Nico's flaw is that he has no flaw. Hamilton mixes highs and lows on and off track and that's way more exciting to watch. Nico's just not used to being disliked because, well, there's really never been a reason to dislike him. And conciously trying to change the public's perception of you is a damned hard thing to do that often backfires. Ask Vettel, he should know.

[2GRX7]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but how well did his play to the crowd work? the boos were apparent even in that massive throng of people. i feel as though speaking to them in Italian was an attempt to mollify the crowd but it didnt help and. LH turned it around with just two words of Italian.

and it is not just boos on the podium, for the past two thurdays Merc have hosted an twitter forum which essentially and open airing of grievances in which NR takes much of the blame and almost all of the hate.

while its fair to say this issue is something being amplified by fans and media but imo it is now having a very real effect on the title protagonists.

this is the power of social media and Merc have let the proverbial genie out of the cell phone.

tin hat time but this works because LH is all over twitter and instagram. he is relatable and his camp have taken great pains to paint him as the 'poor kid against the world' and done so at the expense of casting NR as a villain.

some might think this a ridiculous suggestion but we often talk about one athlete having a physical or psychological edge...for this day and age, i think we should add to that the concept of having a 'Social' edge.

^^Now THIS is funny!^^ You've managed to spread blame on EVERYONE except Rosberg! Let's see what we've got here...
- The Tifosi
- Merc's Twitter hosting
- Hammy's the 'poor kid against the world', uh um,SOCIAL edge
-HAHA, awh HELL- EVERYBODY who's backing Hammy in this spat!!!!!

The worst "hit" you gave him was managing to not help himself by speaking Italian at the Grand Prix! Com'on' ya got to give us something better than that! CHILI, are you being pulled to the DARK SIDE?!! Say it ain't so?!!!

:-)
:-)

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I think he just got stressed. He had an opportunity to dig an even deeper hole for Lewis in the championship and was probably too aware of it too early. And when Lewis proved he had him beat this weekend Nico just buckled. Lewis ahead in the mindgame, for once. Playing to the crowd in a way where Lewis couldn't participate was the only thing left he could do to not get completely squashed.

Having had a day or two to think about this, here's my theory on it. Lewis was faster than Nico this weekend... which isn't surprising as he's always been very strong at Monza. He made a balls of the start but then got his head down and came back through the pack with some trademark Lewis demon driving. Anyone whose ever raced will know that it's not pleasant to have somebody chase you down like predator homing in on it's prey. Nico knew the inevitable was going to happen. It was a damage limitation situation and he had three options :

o Try to defend and suffer the humility of Lewis overtaking him around the outside of Curva Grande or something.
o Put up a robust defence and cause an accident to take them both out.
o Overshoot the first chicane allowing Lewis a free run by.

The first two would be most damaging to Nico. The third option offers a face saving get out and we're left none the wiser about what might have been. Even though Lewis took the spoils of victory, Nico left Milan on Sunday with his points lead suffering minimal erosion.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Having had a day or two to think about this, here's my theory on it. Lewis was faster than Nico this weekend... which isn't surprising as he's always been very strong at Monza. He made a balls of the start but then got his head down and came back through the pack with some trademark Lewis demon driving. Anyone whose ever raced will know that it's not pleasant to have somebody chase you down like predator homing in on it's prey. Nico knew the inevitable was going to happen. It was a damage limitation situation and he had three options :

o Try to defend and suffer the humility of Lewis overtaking him around the outside of Curva Grande or something.
o Put up a robust defence and cause an accident to take them both out.
o Overshoot the first chicane allowing Lewis a free run by.

The first two would be most damaging to Nico. The third option offers a face saving get out and we're left none the wiser about what might have been. Even though Lewis took the spoils of victory, Nico left Milan on Sunday with his points lead suffering minimal erosion.

So, [Conspiracy theory alert!] do you think his first overshoot at the chicane was a practice run, making sure he made it look convincing? (Let's face it, Nico could safely follow Lewis home and finish secont with the points lead he's got at the moment...)

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

So, [Conspiracy theory alert!] do you think his first overshoot at the chicane was a practice run, making sure he made it look convincing? (Let's face it, Nico could safely follow Lewis home and finish secont with the points lead he's got at the moment...)

It might well have been.

[MGDavid]

just remember the old adage: when faced with a choice between conspiracy or cock-up, it's invariably the latter.

[Razzzor]

Can't believe you guys think his overshoots were intentional. This is the F1 world championship remember, and Nico may never get another opportunity like this. He's not going to hand a win over to Lewis just to avoid the fans booing him again if the collide, and another wrist slap from the team. How weak and insecure would you have to be to do that?

Also, more importantly, I'm not sure Lewis had anything for Nico. I thought he would have in the first stint, but as soon as he got to the 1sec window Lewis couldn't get closer and even dropped back to about 1.5s behind by the time of the pit stop. He would have known Nico was about to pit and he himself was going to pit. To stand any chance of passing Nico in the pits he had to be as close as possible when they pitted. 1.5s back isn't close.

That was it, he said himself once he got to Nico's dirty air he had trouble staying there.

If Lewis had caught Nico after the pit stops, I'm not sure that he would have been able to pass him. He was only closing fast at that stage because of the fresh tyres, but that advantage would have faded pretty soon.

Once Lewis got in front he had a couple more quick laps and from then on wasn't able to pull away at all, the gap stayed the same. Of course he might have been managing the gap, who knows.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Can't believe you guys think his overshoots were intentional. This is the F1 world championship remember, and Nico may never get another opportunity like this. He's not going to hand a win over to Lewis just to avoid the fans booing him again if the collide, and another wrist slap from the team. How weak and insecure would you have to be to do that?

Also, more importantly, I'm not sure Lewis had anything for Nico. I thought he would have in the first stint, but as soon as he got to the 1sec window Lewis couldn't get closer and even dropped back to about 1.5s behind by the time of the pit stop. He would have known Nico was about to pit and he himself was going to pit. To stand any chance of passing Nico in the pits he had to be as close as possible when they pitted. 1.5s back isn't close.

That was it, he said himself once he got to Nico's dirty air he had trouble staying there.

If Lewis had caught Nico after the pit stops, I'm not sure that he would have been able to pass him. He was only closing fast at that stage because of the fresh tyres, but that advantage would have faded pretty soon.

Once Lewis got in front he had a couple more quick laps and from then on wasn't able to pull away at all, the gap stayed the same. Of course he might have been managing the gap, who knows.

I'd like to think you're right about all the above but such have been the strange goings on this year that not everything may be as it seems.

[Gingers4Justice]

I've been looking closely at images of Rosberg's 'mistake', and looking at the shadows there's simply no way that it could have been filmed on the moon.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by 2GRX7

^^Now THIS is funny!^^ You've managed to spread blame on EVERYONE except Rosberg!

its all about the darkside!

i wasnt trying to shift the blame away from Nico though. just trying to look for explanations for why he seems to be cracking under the pressure.

two races in a row now for NR where he has made one questionable choice and given an odd reason for it followed by two unforced errors.

so only fair imo to look speculate on reasons why he is making such odd mistakes.

for me i suspect that the size and scope of social media is adding (significantly) to the pressure NR is under and i also question his ability to deal with it.

needless to say i believe social media plays a much bigger role in shaping the story then perhaps other do and that its effects have very real consequences upon those involved in said story.

[2GRX7]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

its all about the darkside!

i wasnt trying to shift the blame away from Nico though. just trying to look for explanations for why he seems to be cracking under the pressure.

two races in a row now for NR where he has made one questionable choice and given an odd reason for it followed by two unforced errors.

so only fair imo to look speculate on reasons why he is making such odd mistakes.

for me i suspect that the size and scope of social media is adding (significantly) to the pressure NR is under and i also question his ability to deal with it.

needless to say i believe social media plays a much bigger role in shaping the story then perhaps other do and that its effects have very real consequences upon those involved in said story.

I agree, social media does play into this mess. One thing's for sure; N.R. should not have done his post race blogs while getting messages! What was he/manager thinking?

Also, did anyone notice the nice gesture Hamilton make towards Nico? It was very subtle, but I couldn't help thinking how cool it was.

If you were watching podium ceremonies, one flag-baring fan was basically waving a very long poled flag that was blocking Rosberg's face. Well, L.H. walked over and pulled the flag to the side and signed it, helping Nico to finish his thoughts.

I can understand the booing that occurred at at Spa as it happened in the heat of the moment. What was going on at Monza-not cool.