[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[E.B]

A bit off topic but I read somewhere that Hamilton is the driver most disliked by other drivers.....

As for Webber and Vettel, yes I dont believe we have seen the last Turkey type incident of the year. I have no faith now that either of them will win the WDC and the team wont win the WCC. They are both too intent and focussed on not letting the other win now in my opinion. It has gone well beyond a 'healthy competition'.

[Super Hans]

Tension between competing team-mates is almost a given. Things even got a little bit edgy with Button and Barrichello last year and they're friends. As for Hamilton being unpopular, I refer you to Martin Brundle:

Legard The drivers always seem to gang-up on Lewis in the drivers briefing. Why do you think that is? (paraphrasing)

Brundle Because he's quick.

[djb]

Originally Posted by E.B

I think that was a group of guys which included Chris Hiatt-Baker, a one time Formula Ford pilot I got to know in the mid 70's. He was also into Hang Gliding, and in fact anything as long as danger was involved!

I thought it was those Polynesian chaps back in the day before europeans jumping off bamboo towers and using vines etc---this is serious, anyone old enough to have grown up in the 60s or 70s as a kid reading National Geographic will remember this.

it was a manly proving thing that they came up with, plus it was most likely for exactly for the same reason people do it now or hang glide, or whatever dangerous thing, for the rush.

[Super Hans]

Bungee jumping? No thanks. I'd rather jump off a bridge.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by djb

I thought it was those Polynesian chaps back in the day before europeans jumping off bamboo towers and using vines etc---this is serious, anyone old enough to have grown up in the 60s or 70s as a kid reading National Geographic will remember this.

it was a manly proving thing that they came up with, plus it was most likely for exactly for the same reason people do it now or hang glide, or whatever dangerous thing, for the rush.

Now you mention it, I think I saw the same, or a similar ritual on TV in the last 12 months or so, probably Nat Geo on our local Pay TV channel..... but my recollection is they just tied vines round their ankles and jumped from a much lower height (maybe 30 ft or so). Mind you with no give in the vines it looked more likely to rip your your hip socket out as the stop was, well lets say abrupt! Question would be whether jumping off a platform with in effect a non flexible rope stopping you would classify as bungee jumping, where you rebound on the spring of the cord....

However, as it seemed to be some ancestral (ie long standing) passage to manhood I do agree that it would almost certainly have been the bungee jumpers 'inspiration' (probably along with several large drinks for the Dutch Courage).

All I can add is that both forms of jumping are bloody insanity.

[mac]

Continuing the OT, I've swung around on Lewis. I think he's infinitely more likeable now than ever before, and I think his rivals are coming around to that way of thinking too. I think he's become more sporting both on and off the track - without losing the sheer mentalness to his driving.

This transformation seemed to start around the time is father stopped managing him... coincidence?

I also think his time in an uncompetitive car last season did wonders for him maturing beyond the precocious and spoilt little twerp that he seemed when he was first parachuted into a championship-challenging car.

Interestingly, Vettel seems to have done the reverse...

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by mac

I also think his time in an uncompetitive car last season did wonders for him maturing beyond the precocious and spoilt little twerp that he seemed when he was first parachuted into a championship-challenging car.

Interestingly, Vettel seems to have done the reverse...

Thus, it must be mandatory that all the new stars begin their careers in Minardi (resurrecting that lowly and lovely team, of course). I don't know if I'm writing this as a joke or seriously

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Schummy

Thus, it must be mandatory that all the new stars begin their careers in Minardi (resurrecting that lowly and lovely team, of course). I don't know if I'm writing this as a joke or seriously

Worked for Mr Alonso too...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by mac

Continuing the OT, I've swung around on Lewis. I think he's infinitely more likeable now than ever before, and I think his rivals are coming around to that way of thinking too. I think he's become more sporting both on and off the track - without losing the sheer mentalness to his driving.

This transformation seemed to start around the time is father stopped managing him... coincidence?

I also think his time in an uncompetitive car last season did wonders for him maturing beyond the precocious and spoilt little twerp that he seemed when he was first parachuted into a championship-challenging car.

Interestingly, Vettel seems to have done the reverse...

(I have to agree with this mac. Although I was highly impressed with Early Lewis' results, I wasn't too keen on his attitude. I also thought his father was too overbearing and appeared to be living his own motor-racing aspirations through his son (a common attitude with karting fathers, and that's of course where they've both come from).
Now he's more his own man, Lewis appears to have matured, and maybe having Jenson as a team mate is helping him here too. They appear to have a genuine friendship & mutual respect for each other.

Sorry folks, I seem to be helping this thread go totall off topic here, maybe the moderators should split this off on its own?)

[OZ_HCR32]

Well i am going to go on record and say i think RBR have moved past recent problems and they wont implode. I think the Silvwrstone blow up will turn out to be the turning point for their season and we will see both RBR cars on the podium more often ..

[strider]

I know one shouldn't take Facebook too seriously, but one well-known journalist commented that he was looking forward to the race and thought it was pretty open, but almost all the replies, also from names known to me, said they thought it would be a Red Bull fiesta and that Webbo (sic) would hopefully stick it to his young German rival.

Interesting if that reflects the feeling within the paddock.

[manwell]

Im a massive fan of Webber's but i think he needs to calm it down a bit.
I think his comments last race at Silverstone were justified, but ive just seen on the news an interview with him saying at Hockenheim something along the lines of that Vettel is a good team mate but he wouldnt call him a good bloke.
I think the best thing now is to came down all the off track issues at RBR and focus on the racing. No need to keep up with this inter-team rivalry. Its not going to help at all.

[St00ge]

RBR PR dept should get them on Top Gear in the F1 drivers reasonably priced car to settle this debate and get some free publicity

[Adam43]

Vettel owned Webber in Q and the R. Although Webber had a problem and Vettel defended poorly.

[Mak]

WTF- Whoever made Webbers pit call should be strung up!

[jab]

Both were below par. Mark did get screwed over a bit by Red Bull bringing him in when they did, which ultimately lost him the place to Jenson, but it didn't change things in terms of the battle versus his team mate. But Vettel lost more points today

Red Bull still doing their best to lose the championship

[Adam43]

"Lost more points today". I get what you mean, but what a delightfully desperate way to look at it. He lost more points today, but also gained more points.

Vettel came across well on the red button and it was fun. He wanted to be there giving an interview. Fair play to him.

[ralf fan]

It is my opinion that Red Bull won't win the title unless they choose one driver over the other. It didn't come into play today but the Mclarens are far too consistent and the Red Bull drivers aren't.

Of course Horner is clearly against such blatant favoring of one driver over the other as he stated in his post race Ferrari bashing fit. Just don't mention front wings to him.

[Mak]

Point being they had just bought Vettel in and saw how close he was to getting in the traffic, and imediately bought Webber in from 5 seconds behind. They, Hamilton and Webber had clear track for several laps which would have put them in front of traffic???? Obvious at the time for those on pit wall. Hamilton ran one extra lap and cleared. Webber had fastest pit stop which could have given him a chance to pass Hamilton should he have gone more laps?

[Teretonga]

So there was an error in strategy regarding Webbers pit stop? Deliberate or an accident? Are we going to debate the conspiracy theory?
No.

Its racing. Its subject to human error. drivers and pit crews are human, not automons so lets get real.

Vettel had pole, blew the start. He tried to squeeze Alonso just as he tried to squeeze Webber at Silverstone and both times he's come off the worse for it. At Silverstone he went off and at Hockenheim massa went around the other side and emoerged in front at the end of the lap.

The boy is still a boy in racing terms. Fast, yes. But not yet a man. Not savy or experienced in racing thought as are Webber, Massa, Alonso, Hamilton or Button. And that is where Red Bull have made their internal mistake. They backed the wrong horse.

[GTRMagic]

While Potsie's engine got turned down so it didnt go BOOM!

Can a modern day F1 engine run with no oil in it? Story goes Potsie's may have...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

So there was an error in strategy regarding Webbers pit stop? Deliberate or an accident? Are we going to debate the conspiracy theory?
No.

Its racing. Its subject to human error. drivers and pit crews are human, not automons so lets get real.

You are right they messed up. They could have got Webber to blow his engine up today and be behind Vettel in the championship. Instead they have the same number of points. A huge mess up.

Vettel had pole, blew the start. He tried to squeeze Alonso just as he tried to squeeze Webber at Silverstone and both times he's come off the worse for it. At Silverstone he went off and at Hockenheim massa went around the other side and emoerged in front at the end of the lap.

Yep, it was pants.

The boy is still a boy in racing terms. Fast, yes. But not yet a man. Not savy or experienced in racing thought as are Webber, Massa, Alonso, Hamilton or Button. And that is where Red Bull have made their internal mistake. They backed the wrong horse.

Webber, a savy racer? I had him marked down as just a racer.

[GTRMagic]

How many engines do Mr Vettel and Mr Webber have left?

[ralf fan]

Vettel has his own plus Webber's. Webber has none.

[SSbaby]

What can I say other than Vettel's immaturity cost him the race, off the start?

Too worried about Alonso was doing... that he left the door wide open for Massa and lost two places instead of just one.

Btw, I cannot stand the way the certain drivers try to squeeze the car on the inside just after the start. Vettel is one of the worst offenders, IMHO.