Rosberg vs Hamilton

[chillibowl]

it not so much the points (double points) for me as it is total number of wins.

i know consistency matters but with 10 wins to 5 going into the final and with two separate stretches (first with 4 in a row and second with 5 in a row), LH has also been for me has been the more consistent driver as well.

have gotten used to bashing BE at every turn but awarding titles based on number of wins in a sport which places little to no value to anyone other then the best makes a certain amount of sense.

[bravo]

Originally Posted by Tucky

I know there are a lot of people who think Hamilton deserves the title and would be outraged if Rosberg won because of double points, but is there anyway for Rosberg to win the title without everyone saying "Hamilton should have won"?

Let's say Rosberg wins and Hamilton retires, Rosberg would have won the championship either way. Or (in the highly unlikely event) Hamilton has an appalling race for whatever reason and finishes outside of the points giving Rosberg the championship, would people still say Rosberg is an undeserving champion?

If they finish in such a way so that Rosberg would have won the WC without double points, then that would be a fair result. Without double points, Nico could only win with a 1st or 2nd and Hamilton finishing 7th or DNF respectivly. With double points 5th place is enough for Nico if Ham DNFs. Quite a difference so I hope whatever the reult, it's not affected by this unpopular change of award.

[Tucky]

Originally Posted by bravo

If they finish in such a way so that Rosberg would have won the WC without double points, then that would be a fair result. Without double points, Nico could only win with a 1st or 2nd and Hamilton finishing 7th or DNF respectivly. With double points 5th place is enough for Nico if Ham DNFs. Quite a difference so I hope whatever the reult, it's not affected by this unpopular change of award.

Just because it's fair doesn't mean people won't think Rosberg's an undeserving champion, I don't agree with that but it seems to be the general consensus.

[JeremySmith]

Lewis will win this race, he is going to dig very deep .....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Lewis will win this race, he is going to dig very deep .....

Unless, as Toto Voolf fears his car has trouble!!!

[sethmate]

Hopefully we'll get a good race without reliability becoming an issue - although I'm not sure the Abu Dhabi track is the best to deliver that. As a neutral though it is interesting reading about the relative merits of Hamilton and Rosberg, particularly when it relates to overtaking.

One the one hand Hamilton's aggressive moves are lauded (Austin - running rosberg out wide) but helped by rosberg ceding ground to avoid a collision, yet the spa incident is comparable, only differentiated by Hamilton not backing out (regardless of whether you believe rosberg chopped him deliberately).

Anyway, hopefully button will continue McLaren's recent improved form and time will tell whether it's his last gp and we get a cracking race

[chillibowl]

good call about the possible last race for Button as being something worth keeping a very close eye on.

also would like to see Kimi and Seb get into something before they become team mates next year. iirc there were some moments years back in Brazil between Montoya and Kimi before they became team mates, perhaps even set the tone for their partnership. would be nice to see if Kimi still has that type of fight in him.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Unless, as Toto Voolf fears his car has trouble!!!

No Problem, then Merc will park Rosberg!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Tucky

Just because it's fair doesn't mean people won't think Rosberg's an undeserving champion, I don't agree with that but it seems to be the general consensus.

You are not alone.
Before this season started I was a secret admirer of Rosberg and felt he would run Hamilton very close, but as the season has played out I feel Hamilton deserves the title more then Rosberg and would be disappointed if Hamilton was beaten to it by the rules or mechanical failure.

[Clive]

Have to agree Hammy deserves it on merit based on results this season. Be a travesty if he loses it on this double points fiasco or mechanical failure

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

No Problem, then Merc will park Rosberg!

That's what I would do....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

That's what I would do....

Travesty not to with the number of wins, usually figure a heuristic figure of six will get a championship! Not too many exceptions.

[csirl]

Keep on thinking of Nigel Mansell in 1986 - blown tyre in Australia.

[Paradise City]

I don't give one fig about the 'number' of wins. If consistency bags you the title, then you've got the title. Being consistent is a fundamental part of the sport too.

[chillibowl]

both drivers have been consistent in their own ways this year so is consistency been the differentiator this year or is it down to the DNFs?

for me though, i have a hard time seeing why separate stretches of 4 and then 5 wins in a row is a less consistent record then a driver with a similar record of second places finishes.

anyways the points system is what it is and given how close things have been this year it is a bit like sour grapes complaining now how this adversely effects LH when the shoe easily could have been on the other foot.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i have a hard time seeing why separate stretches of 4 and then 5 wins in a row is a less consistent record then a driver with a similar record of second places finishes.

Absolutely, especially when the vast majority of said second place finishes are behind your team mate!

[John Turner]

Consistency plays its part, of course, but winning any championship should include a strong element of race wins. Consistency should only play a part if the number of wins between the contenders is close. As far as I am concerned Hamilton is already the 2014 champion even if Rosberg wins the last race and Hamilton fails to score enough points. It will still be 10-6 in Lewis favour, a pretty clear and emphatic margin of victory by any standards. The various (and all inadequate) points scoring systems of every era in F1 have been a bone of contention for me since 1958. That year Moss won 4 races, Brooks 3 and Hawthorn just one, and yet it was the latter who was World Champion. Sheer nonsense and this double points for the last race is just another load of catering to the LCD crap.

[bauble]

Personally I will not consider either driver as 'true' World Champion given the superiority of their equipment, winning lots of races with the fastest car proves little of value when comparing drivers. Which ever driver wins this years title can boast they are better than their team mate, being World Champion proves it - surely?

Many might think that Ricciardo or Alonso have more claim to be the 'best' driver of the season. Sadly being World Champion often means having more points than anyone else, and little to do with true talent.

Just my opinion.

baiuble.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Just the same as in other years, though. Just the way it works.

Think Ferrari 02/04, McLaren in 88/89 (if memory serves me correctly)...

Selby

[Paradise City]

I liked the sport when it was '10-6-4-3-2-1' points-wise. You generally got ahead with your wins on that system.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Just the same as in other years, though. Just the way it works.

Think Ferrari 02/04, McLaren in 88/89 (if memory serves me correctly)...

Selby

Indeed Dan there are many instances where one man/car has dominated, however that was usually the result of 'natural selection'.
A manufacturer/team with a good car seeking the best driver, however, today it seems that with the right car 'almost anyone' can be World Champion.

During 1952/53 Ferrari won 14 Grand Prix in succession, Alberto Ascari winning 11 of them. While the Ferrari 500 was a very good car it was Ascari that made it so dominant.

I find it depressing that so many races theses days are pretty well won before they start.

Maybe I am just getting old.

[Greem]

So... Ascari had the right car in '52/53 then? Or would he have won in a jalopy of someone else's?

I'm not sure that's a very good example of how things were different back then. It sounds much like the last 4 years in a way.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I liked the sport when it was '10-6-4-3-2-1' points-wise. You generally got ahead with your wins on that system.

Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.
Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.
Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.

I liked that format. It worked and like anything that works in F1, someone dedcided to change it.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.
Pah, 9-6-4-3-2-1 was the business. Used when men were real men.

Bigger gap between 1st and 2nd with 10 points. It was a good system.

If F1 had've stuck with that system, wonder how F1 would've unfolded in a commercial sense.