The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[gwyllion]

http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/ka...ng-experience/ has an interview Nakajima. More Toyota PR instead of real inside information.

[TF110]

Hopefully his SGT experience improved his racecraft. Maybe he just wasn't ready for F1, he needed more time I think. He brought up the darkness again. They'll probably have to get brighter lights.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

The TS030's airflow management is of the Peugeot school. The only similarities I see to the R18 is how the Toyota integrated it's engine inlet into the fin and the high outboard rear fender trailing edge. Other than those two small details it's pretty evident the Toyota aerodynamicisits were looking hard at the 908.

I also see quite some resemblance with the Dome S102.

@MulsanneMike: Can you confirm (by measuring the distance on the pictures) that the wheel base is long in comparison with the diesels and that the driver is positioned more rearward? The driver position should yield a much better visibility.

[gregtummer]

Last year, Peugeot did a fastest lap of the race in the 3:27s and the winning Audi did a 3:25.3 I believe.

Peugeot said that this year's car was a second a lap faster at Le Mans than last year's.

So 3:24-3:25 lap times aren't out of the question.

[gwyllion]

@Japanese Samurai: In the second part of the interview with Kazuki Nakajima interview 300 hp is mentioned as the power of the hybrid system. Is that correct?

I also read in the interview that the sliding/wheel spin in the last corner is mentioned and that this was an issue with the traction control (petrol engine/electric engine interaction) mapping.

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

@Japanese Samurai: In the second part of the interview with Kazuki Nakajima interview 300 hp is mentioned as the power of the hybrid system. Is that correct?.

Yes.
he says that since he heard the number 300, he thinks 300 H.P. (Joking)

I also read in the interview that the sliding/wheel spin in the last corner is mentioned and that this was an issue with the traction control (petrol engine/electric engine interaction) mapping.

Yes.

[TF110]

500kj is what it's limited to, they said 1mj+ was what they could store.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by deggis

First you have to ask how good is the simulator or how accurate the track model is (i.e. is it laser scanned). Toyota knows the real life vs. sim offset, we don't.

An accurate model of the track is crucial.

In 2010 Peugeot underestimated the grip level of the track (especially the resurfaced Porsche curves) and as a result the engine spent longer at full throttle than they expected. This was given as explanation for the infamous conrod failures.

I ran the interview through babelfish and Nakajima seems to say that the lap times changed a lot if the grip level of the tires was changed in the simulator.

If you look at last years race, the grip level of the track changes a lot during the race. Audi won the race because they were able to cope the best with the changing grip level.

[TF110]

500kj is equal to .19hp/hour if the calculations are right. So this would mean a burst of 684hp for 1 second? So to release it over a period of 10 seconds it could equal 68hp?

[hotlavaaaa]

Originally Posted by TF110

500kj is equal to .19hp/hour if the calculations are right. So this would mean a burst of 684hp for 1 second? So to release it over a period of 10 seconds it could equal 68hp?

This might explain the wheelspin. They're trying to put down over 1200 hp.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I also see quite some resemblance with the Dome S102.

@MulsanneMike: Can you confirm (by measuring the distance on the pictures) that the wheel base is long in comparison with the diesels and that the driver is positioned more rearward? The driver position should yield a much better visibility.

I haven't done it yet but I'll look into that this weekend. And there's naturally a resemblance to the S102...hopefully the full story will come out over time.

[gwyllion]

Toyota will have the change to refine their traction control settings in wet conditions.

Originally Posted by @Toyota_Hybrid

@kazuki_info just finished his morning work. Now @Nico_Lapierre onboard, with rainy conditions. So team learns more about the car on wet.

[ss_collins]

The TS030 only has to cool a 3.4, NA, V8. Thus they can get away with smaller side pods as they need to grab less cooling air.

And the E-Motor

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by TF110

500kj is equal to .19hp/hour if the calculations are right. So this would mean a burst of 684hp for 1 second? So to release it over a period of 10 seconds it could equal 68hp?

Pretty impressive. Does anyone know if they can/will be allowed to change this setting during the race to go along with changing strategies? Just an observation: to release it over a period of five seconds equals 137hp. Five seconds is a looonng time in LMP1.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

And the E-Motor

Which I don't think is cooled by any duct in the raised nose--it seems to be solid based on the HQ photos that TMG released. The area below the red on the tip of the nose seems to be bare carbon.

Of course, the Audi R18s at Sebring last month ran an orange hose out the rear of the cars above the rear diffuser. That may've been to vent air out of the area where the hybrid system was mounted. Could Toyota be using some vent system to extract air away from the hybrid system--the doors have been profiled as to provide low drag venting out of the cockpit.

[gwyllion]

They probably just added more or bigger radiators in the side pots to cool the electric engine, the supercapacitors and the high voltage/current electronics.

According to http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...66#post3017566 the supercapacitors are oil cooled and the electric engine is water cooled.

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Which I don't think is cooled by any duct in the raised nose--it seems to be solid based on the HQ photos that TMG released. The area below the red on the tip of the nose seems to be bare carbon.

Of course, the Audi R18s at Sebring last month ran an orange hose out the rear of the cars above the rear diffuser. That may've been to vent air out of the area where the hybrid system was mounted. Could Toyota be using some vent system to extract air away from the hybrid system--the doors have been profiled as to provide low drag venting out of the cockpit.

Originally Posted by ss_collins

And the E-Motor

Yeah I thought I read somewhere that the hybrid components are going to be liquid cooled?

Edit: Ah, there we go. Thanks gwyllion!

[I love 04s]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

I haven't done it yet but I'll look into that this weekend. And there's naturally a resemblance to the S102...hopefully the full story will come out over time.

mmmmmmmmm......... I dont think the story is complete yet.....!

[gwyllion]

I have been intrigued by the 500 kJ for a while. So I decided to do some calculations to determine its performance impact.

A hybrid petrol LMP1 can use 73 liter of petrol during one stint. The specific energy content of petrol is 35 MJ/liter (see here). That means that the fuel tank contains 2555 MJ of energy.

Lets assume that the thermal efficiency of the petrol engine is 30% (see here). That means that during a stint 767 MJ of (useful) mechanical energy can be developed (ignoring drive train losses).

We know that a stint of an LMP1 car is around 40 minutes at race pace. This is equivalent to 11 laps with an average lap time of 3m 38s.

That means that on average the car is using 767 MJ/2400 s = 320 kW or 435 hp. If we assume that the maximum power output of a LMP1 engine is 400 kW, that means that on average 80% of the maximum power is used. That sounds quite reasonable.

The hybrid system will release 500 kJ between every braking zone. On the Le Mans track there are around 7 heavy braking zones? So during a 11 lap stint the hybrid system will be activated around 80 times? That would mean 40 MJ of additional electric energy during one stint. That is worth a gain in power of around 40 MJ/2400 s = 17 kW, which is 17 kW/320 kW = 5%.

If you don't use a hybrid system the fuel tank will be 75 liter instead of 73 liter, which is 2.7% more. So the hybrid system is worth all the effort

Obviously on a track with more braking zones, the gain in performance will be bigger.

Also note that I am ignore other factors, such as bigger cooling requirements and hence slightly more drag and the additional weight (worse balance, center of gravity, ...).

[gwyllion]

Toyota just posted another video: Onboard with Nicolas Lapierre.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

And the E-Motor

Yes, but a 3.4L + E-motor is a lot less than a diesel turbo (Rads, oil coolers, intercoolers). And then add a E-motor onto that TD...

[evanPGH]

Just posted:

http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/su...-ts030-hybrid/

No real new info but a nice little summary from everyone.

[merlot brougham]

I'm really excited that Toyota is filling the void left by Peugeot. I would have preferred there to be no void at all but at least we have Audi + Toyota instead of just Audi.

The technology and incrmental advancements on this car are going to be awesome to witness as well. Shame I won't see it at Sebring though.

So who do I pull for now? It sure as hell ain't gonna be Toyota! They build appliances, not cars. They build and sell soulless automobiles in the US that are more often than not driven by people who view driving as a chore. Their name is forever sullied in my eyes because of that. /rant.

Still, just happy they are doing their part to keep world class sportscar racing going.

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

I'm really excited that Toyota is filling the void left by Peugeot. I would have preferred there to be no void at all but at least we have Audi + Toyota instead of just Audi.

The technology and incrmental advancements on this car are going to be awesome to witness as well. Shame I won't see it at Sebring though.

So who do I pull for now? It sure as hell ain't gonna be Toyota! They build appliances, not cars. They build and sell soulless automobiles in the US that are more often than not driven by people who view driving as a chore. Their name is forever sullied in my eyes because of that. /rant.

Still, just happy they are doing their part to keep world class sportscar racing going.

See: 2000GT, Corolla AE86, Supra, Celica GT-Four, MR2, MR-S, FT86

[AGD]

Originally Posted by evanPGH

See: 2000GT, Corolla AE86, Supra, Celica GT-Four, MR2, MR-S, FT86

Well, with one exception, aren't those all discontinued models? Toyota had some exciting stuff back in the day. Now, well, not so much. Boring is fine even if Toyota takes boring to the extreme. Someone has to make boring and I'm sure it makes money. My problem with American Toyota models is that they just feel so cheap these days. I remember when lowly Corollas felt like small Lexuses. Now Corollas feel like cheapened versions of Chevys! Plus, they went through a period of time where their cars all looked like trucks or something. What's up with that? I guess some of the newer models are better looking. Well, better than the past at least.

All that said, I don't pretend that racing cars (especially stuff like prototypes and F1 cars) have anything to do with road cars. Maybe there is some crossover in ethos between Ferrari road and race cars, but Toyota? Or Audi even? I'm not so sure. Of course, if every sports car fan thought the same way I do, I guess there would not be any manufacturers in sports car racing so maybe I should not say anything! And the crowd goes wild!