Merger Imminent?

[BootsOntheSide]

The Briscoe/Team Australia thing makes me sorely question the accuracy of this report. One of the key racing sites should carry something official within 24 hours if a deal really is finalised.

[indycool]

I don't think it's done yet, Boots. Tony George and Robert Clarke are in Japan now to meet with officials at Motegi about moving dates to remove the conflict with Long Beach. That is said to be the only major hurdle to this bearing fruit. A track can't announce anything yet because it hasn't really happened officially yet. For any of you near Indy, RM and Walker are scheuled to be on Channel 6 with Dave Furst at 11:30 p.m. Indy time tonight. I'm sure their thoughts will be interesting, but I doubt we know anything official with details at least until TG and Clarke return from Japan.

[Peter Ford]

I have be giving this topic a rethink since my last post,i think the cart teams will have an unfair advantage because they wont have time to get to know the IRl races and they will be stuggling to race against the top IRL teams.Think if the merger does happen it should be for 2009
so that everyone can be testing with the same tests at the same time.so this would be the final year with 2 open wheel series--champcar and IRL.

[luke]

It's rather amusing that if CC accepts Tony's offers of reunification...The IRL and the sport of 'Indy Car Style Racing' will be more contradicted to the IRL's reason of creation in Tony's very own words back in 1995 to the Indianapolis Star.

I'm sure in 2009 a couple of the less successful IRL races shall be dropped in favor of other CC successful events that couldn't be added this year if there is a merge re-uniting American Open Wheel after 12 years of the split. Therefore there could be a couple-less ovals and more road/street from the CC schedule along worth mainly foreign and road-racing based drivers this will shape a unified series even more international and less oval then in 1995 when Tony felt the need to create the split by creating his child - The Indy Racing League. Which in affect shows to me Tony was only ever interested in control which he never received in CART pre-split, but now would have.


If there's isn't a merge this year, it may not be that bad. Several races can be run without the threat of not being run for one year which would no doubt hinder its future when trying to return the following year. They could get everything sorted out for the future year, and future years. In 1 month before Homestead it seems to much of a rush for me, especially when the split has lasted 12 years.

I also think TG feels the need for CC's numbers because I'm sure Homestead will be 17-18 cars and isn't just all about lets merge now and save AOWR. The IRL isn't in good shape either.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Peter Ford

I have be giving this topic a rethink since my last post,i think the cart teams will have an unfair advantage because they wont have time to get to know the IRl races and they will be stuggling to race against the top IRL teams.Think if the merger does happen it should be for 2009
so that everyone can be testing with the same tests at the same time.so this would be the final year with 2 open wheel series--champcar and IRL.

I agree Peter. there are some advtantages with merging for 2009 instead of this year. Maybe CC teams should just do Indy for this year...Whether CC or IRL last 2008 however is a totally different thing.

[indycool]

Robin Miller went on SPEED News about an hour ago, and said:

--Walker is owed $1.5 million by Gore and has a Dallara in his shop.
--Haas hasn't told his staff which series they're going to run but said he'd decide within a couple days.
--TG and Clarke meet with Motegi folks about 11 o'clock Indy time.

[mountainstar]

Gore may be having financial problems as he put his two Level 1 Franchise Licences up for sale in V8 Supercars. The wine market has collapsed in Australia with a glut on the market. My mates in Queensland have picked up bottles of good wine for $2. The hot real estate market in QLD has slowed way down as well.

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

This has to be the time to do it. A lot of races will lose out, but getting a single unified field with a single (largely American) direction is vital. I'm not sure it can even wait another year. Losing the Panoz cars would be a shame - maybe a ballasting system can be arranged to allow those to race against the Dallaras on the road/street courses, maybe alongside the same teams' regular Dallaras? I doubt Motegi will be a sticking point - Honda have far more to gain from the merger than they would have from moving or even cancelling this race. Alternatively, why not Suzuka?

Hope the loss of Champ Car Panoz design could head to a Panoz DP02 adapted to IRL regs. Stripping the spec-chassis and becoming a multi-chassis series it could be one of the best thing that could happen to Indycars.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by luke

It's rather amusing that if CC accepts Tony's offers of reunification...The IRL and the sport of 'Indy Car Style Racing' will be more contradicted to the IRL's reason of creation in Tony's very own words back in 1995 to the Indianapolis Star.

I'm sure in 2009 a couple of the less successful IRL races shall be dropped in favor of other CC successful events that couldn't be added this year if there is a merge re-uniting American Open Wheel after 12 years of the split. Therefore there could be a couple-less ovals and more road/street from the CC schedule along worth mainly foreign and road-racing based drivers this will shape a unified series even more international and less oval then in 1995 when Tony felt the need to create the split by creating his child - The Indy Racing League. Which in affect shows to me Tony was only ever interested in control which he never received in CART pre-split, but now would have.


If there's isn't a merge this year, it may not be that bad. Several races can be run without the threat of not being run for one year which would no doubt hinder its future when trying to return the following year. They could get everything sorted out for the future year, and future years. In 1 month before Homestead it seems to much of a rush for me, especially when the split has lasted 12 years.

I also think TG feels the need for CC's numbers because I'm sure Homestead will be 17-18 cars and isn't just all about lets merge now and save AOWR. The IRL isn't in good shape either.

It was always about money and power, Tony George against the major owners of CART and than Tony George against Kevin Kalkhoven. It has been a long protracted struggle with the only benefits going to F1 and NASCAR. And every minute that goes by without unification keeps the blood spilling and makes both series increasingly irrelevent.

Tony George won the war however. He will be the head honcho, the one calling the shots and reaping the potential huge profits. Forsythe and Kalkhoven need to swallow their pride and get on with it because their intractable stance serves no one save competing racing series like F1 and NASCAR.

Any true fan of the sport (any fan who puts their allegience to this type of racing ahead of F1 at least) wants it settled now.

[Fish_Flake]

Originally Posted by rush1

It was always about money and power, Tony George against the major owners of CART and than Tony George against Kevin Kalkhoven. It has been a long protracted struggle with the only benefits going to F1 and NASCAR. And every minute that goes by without unification keeps the blood spilling and makes both series increasingly irrelevent.

Tony George won the war however. He will be the head honcho, the one calling the shots and reaping the potential huge profits. Forsythe and Kalkhoven need to swallow their pride and get on with it because their intractable stance serves no one save competing racing series like F1 and NASCAR.

Any true fan of the sport (any fan who puts their allegience to this type of racing ahead of F1 at least) wants it settled now.

Tony George was always going to win. Even if a merger happened in 1999 at the height of CART's power, and the result was CART's board of directors remaining in power, Tony would be considered the winner, because to most people open-wheel racing is the Indy 500, and having all of the sport's teams back at the Brickyard would be their sticking point.

A merger means that Tony's in charge, but friendly relations with team owners at last may create a culture where give-and-take in regulatory matters could be a possibility in the near future.

[indycool]

rush1, you have espoused the thinking of many that I disagree somewhat with.

Yes, I have always been FOR one series centered by the "500" because I think that's the best it can be.

But CC and IRL, neither one, are "fighting" F-1 and NASCAR for some mythical trophy of world supremacy. This is the sports entertainment industry, not a Texas Death Match on RAW with everybody else in racing.

They don't NEED to be better by our hardcore fan standards than F1 or NASCAR. Long Beach's ratings have been low and PARTLY because the race has been run against the final round of the Masters golf tournament. The IRL changed its season end date to avoid football, The Chase and the World Series to try for better ratings and attract viewers so they might become fans.

CART had a reputation for getting into supremacy issues with everybody in racing, and CC hasn't really been any better, but racing is part of a much larger pie for the sports entertainment dollar in the United States.

A combined series including the "500" is very likely to be a more significant factor in that environment.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by indycool

rush1, you have espoused the thinking of many that I disagree somewhat with.

Yes, I have always been FOR one series centered by the "500" because I think that's the best it can be.

But CC and IRL, neither one, are "fighting" F-1 and NASCAR for some mythical trophy of world supremacy. This is the sports entertainment industry, not a Texas Death Match on RAW with everybody else in racing.

They don't NEED to be better by our hardcore fan standards than F1 or NASCAR. Long Beach's ratings have been low and PARTLY because the race has been run against the final round of the Masters golf tournament. The IRL changed its season end date to avoid football, The Chase and the World Series to try for better ratings and attract viewers so they might become fans.

CART had a reputation for getting into supremacy issues with everybody in racing, and CC hasn't really been any better, but racing is part of a much larger pie for the sports entertainment dollar in the United States.

A combined series including the "500" is very likely to be a more significant factor in that environment.

I am for a healthy Indy Racing League (or whatever a merged outfit would be called), NASCAR and F1. However, The winner of last years 500 and series champion left the IRL for NASCAR, three time IRL champion Sam Hornish left the IRL for NASCAR, Toyota left and is in NASCAR, four time champ car champion Bourdais left champ car for F1, Tony Stewart left the IRL many years prior for NASCAR.

F1 and NASCAR is the competition. Drivers follow the money and the much of the big money has left the champ cars and indy cars for the aforementioned series. Only a unified series can attract and retain world class talent. Only a unified series can bring back other engine manufacturers and sponsors with the cash to retain the drivers.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by Fish_Flake

Tony George was always going to win. Even if a merger happened in 1999 at the height of CART's power, and the result was CART's board of directors remaining in power, Tony would be considered the winner, because to most people open-wheel racing is the Indy 500, and having all of the sport's teams back at the Brickyard would be their sticking point.

A merger means that Tony's in charge, but friendly relations with team owners at last may create a culture where give-and-take in regulatory matters could be a possibility in the near future.

I agree with your post, TG was always smart enough to realize he retained the ace in the hole, the Indianapolis 500.

When its all over, I hope there is a press conference where Tony George and Kevin Kalhoven shake hands and agree to work together and grow the sport. A scenario where the IRL poaches a couple of champ car teams and shuts down the competition would be unfortunate.

A scenario where everyone comes together in an amiable agreement would be the best outcome, I think we can all agree on that.

[indycool]

I agree with everything you said except that F1 and NASCAR are not the ONLY competition for sponsorship and the sports entertainment dollar, which makes it possible for the sport to grow enough to make it worthwhile for the dollars to flow into it, so drivers and teams can get paid more dollars, and it is worth it for TV to pay more dollars, etc.

They run on dollars before they run on ethanol.

[madman16]

Originally Posted by indycool

I agree with everything you said except that F1 and NASCAR are not the ONLY competition for sponsorship and the sports entertainment dollar, which makes it possible for the sport to grow enough to make it worthwhile for the dollars to flow into it, so drivers and teams can get paid more dollars, and it is worth it for TV to pay more dollars, etc.

They run on dollars before they run on ethanol.

You're right they're not the only competition but in terms of the Motorsport dollar i think they nearly are. Most money coming into motorsport prefer to be little stickers in the big pond rather than being a naming rights sponsor in something else ie CC or IRL. Even Moto GP struggle for sponsorship because companies only think of F1 and the huge corporate get together.

[climb]

Back to multiple mountainstar and d.r.t. & other harsh posts about TG:
I understand your position, you're far from stupid and see very well that the term "merger" is an euphemistic excuse to define what's a real collapse of CC and definitive prevail of IRL.
Whenever the "merger" happens (2008 or 2009) it's just CC teams migrating to IRL and IRL just picking the CC best events to enrich their schedule.

You've been very passionate supporters of CC and now you're cannot stand the current situation, even though it's the best solution available for the AOWR

BTW: italiaracing reports (in english)

http://italiaracing.net/notizia.asp?id=17955&cat=3

something interesting about Derrick Walker

edited to reflect more clearly what poster meant - please take it in the spirit intended - p-c

[JohnSSC]

I think that anyone who is suggesting that the CC teams will be "disadvantaged" at the 500 needs to go back and look at the results when CC teams have participated in the 500.

I agree in principle with Fish_Flake and rush1 - this needs to be one series and it needs to be one series now.

Fazzaz, as always, a good summary of the inputs teams will be using as they do their cost/benefit analysis...

[BootsOntheSide]

All other things equal, a team which is used to the cars in a race, and has regularly been doing oval racing, will be at an advantage over one which has not. It's just that the CART teams which did the Indy 500 in 2001/2002 were generally a lot stronger (better funded, better staff, better drivers) than the IRL regulars - as demonstrated by the way they have dominated since switching. Other than NHL, no current ChampCar team is the equal of Penske or Ganassi on paper, so they would struggle in a combined series.

[climb]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

...Other than NHL, no current ChampCar team is the equal of Penske or Ganassi on paper, so they would struggle in a combined series.

But not exclusively because of an experience gap, just because they're less funded and organised.

They would struggle as well as they struggle now in CC.

Evry series has mid/backfield teams, who nontheless find it convenient to be there

[JohnSSC]

Well, time will tell, but keep in mind Boots that many of the CC teams are staffed by folks with a great deal of oval experience.

Better to have this discussion though than the "How can both survive?" discussion...

[Mekola]

Anyone can see that now Tony George has his hands free to do the merge with Champ Cars since Bernie stripped him the USA GP at Indianapolis?
In the past, the merge could be threaten by Bernie at the price to lose the F1 race, and now when it was done anyways, TG has nothing to lose.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Anyone can see that now Tony George has his hands free to do the merge with Champ Cars since Bernie stripped him the USA GP at Indianapolis?
In the past, the merge could be threaten by Bernie at the price to lose the F1 race, and now when it was done anyways, TG has nothing to lose.

Expect the Indy GP to be back on the schedule in 09'. Bernie would have had no hand in preventing a merger.

[climb]

I wouldn't be so optimistic about F1 back to Indy, but I agree that Bernie, for once, doesn't belong in this match

[indycool]

I don't think Bernie is involved, or cares about it.

[climb]

I hope he'll have to care some day