The Rain Light & MSA Rant Thread

[dtype38]

The one from Maplin is cheaper than the same one from DT by more than the one from Merlin?

[terence]

I thought the MSA measurment was 50mm[squared]?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

The one from Maplin is cheaper than the same one from DT by more than the one from Merlin?

I think they are slightly different in that they have a resistor built into the wire. Although you can buy around 600 resistors for the difference in the price of the Deamon Tweaks and the Maplin one.
I would only ever use an FIA spec one though so I wouldn't consider the Maplin jobbie.

[JohnD]

Midgetman,
here's another buyer for you, if only to put out the MSA/FIA.

JOhn

[bdwoody]

i had a look at the maplin one and i'm sure it's spec said it was 9v and 20watts this could be a problem don't you think ?

[midgetman]

I know Merlin exceptionally well, and I can safely say that if Steven has homologated a light then it is a readily-available part. He's a good engineer but not electrically minded so he won't have made it himself.

I know my SWOT analysis from my Ansoff Matrix, I am comfortable with Maslov's theory of needs, but reverse voltage? Step down resistor? Spectral line halfwidth? I'm going away for a couple of days to try and understand how to make it all work, will report back soon as I can make sense of it!

MM

[midgetman]

Austinspace that was my reading too, it's all about getting something approved by the MSA. I don't think there's any *need* for it to be LED, but it's the all-important homolog cert. And it appears LED is a cheaper route.

[johnw]

So would it be cheaper to homolgate the led bub replacements for existing lights then Midgetman?

[ScoopJumps]

This whole topic is making my head spin. I think an FIA LED rain light is going on my christmas list. Won't cost me a penny then and at least I know I will not get turned away at scrutineering.

[Lola]

A 60 ohm resistor is all you need.

[Al Weyman]

Here's an interesting thread on the F1 forum relevant to this and the hold FIA/MSA have over the ordinary club racer its an extreme example admitidly but boils down to the same thing. http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101976

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Here's an interesting thread on the F1 forum relevant to this and the hold FIA/MSA have over the ordinary club racer its an extreme example admitidly but boils down to the same thing. http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101976

Al, that's a fantastic thread! So basically we are being governed by a body with no mandate! Having just come back from the southern US I would be quite happy to raise a rebel yell and tell them where to stick their rain lights, date expiry on seats, belts etc!!!!

Having raced on the continent and the USA it has become apparent that UK club racers are not valued by the racing establishment in the UK. No suprise that track days/corporate events rule the roost and I wonder how much longer there will be a club racing scene in the UK. Whilst I will comply with the imposed regs I am truly saddened by the way that racers are treated in the UK and I for one am quite happy to take my race entry fees abroad - the regs are the same but at least you are treated as a customer - its a sad truth!

[GORDON STREETER]

DaveGT6. I entirely agree in what you say, its getting worse for the clubbie racer as the money grabbers at the top start the ball rolling until it filters down to us at the bottom. All that I can say is that I still love the sport and I am a very competitive person, but I'm glad that I am in my twilight years and not just starting out. The majority of our money now goes on the wrong things in my mind when it should be spent on the car. If everyone in racing still has the blinkered view of "its only another fifty quid" or so then I dont hold out a lot of hope for the future. Is this happening in other parts of the globe ? it would be interesting to hear from a few of you guys out there as regards cost of entry's /licences etc, especially the States and Oz.Also the ridiculous price we are paying for fuel now will have a part in its downfall.
As for the FIA I'd like to be a fly on the wall !!

[terence]

Totally agree Gordon,Whilst we all know that the "Top End" is in fact the Circuit owner,who then pass'es the expense down to the Series Organizer,then it's down to entry fee's etc etc,I still think that some Circuit's are over estimating the worth of thier venue's.I think that if a "Rebellion" were started,that would be were to start.One problem is stated as Falling Grid Number's,now I wonder why that is ?.When Racing abroad,we are classed as "Entertainers",possibly the reason we get better treatment,and one reason why it's not often I, for one,race over here.

[Tim Falce]

Just to add another twist to this lot, I have just been on the MSA website and looked at the on-line 2008 Blue book. Page 160 states

Originally Posted by On-Line Blue Book

Red Warning Light
69. A rearward facing red warning light of a minimum
of 21 watts with surface area minimum 20cm2/
maximum 40cm2, or of 21 watts with a minimum
surface area of 50cm2 and with lens and reflector to EU
Standards, must be located within 10cm of the centre
line of the vehicle and be clearly visible from the rear.
70. Vehicles fitted with full width bodywork may
alternatively use two lights symmetrically located about
the vehicle centre line. An alternative light unit of equal
or greater constant luminosity, or LED lights that are
either homologated by the FIA or comply with relevant
EU Regulations, may be used.
71. The warning light must be switched on when
visibility is reduced, when so instructed in any event
regulations, or when instructed by the Clerk of the
Course.

Is this a misprint, am I looking at the wrong bit or has this thread been a total waste of time?


Linky here

[johnw]

That is why I contacted the MSA Tim. It did read to me that we could carry on with (two) existing foglights.
The man from the MSA though, he say no.

[GordonG]

Well, think yourselves lucky guys. The 750MC, in their infinite wisdom, have gone one better - all 750 formulae not only have to run FIA LED fog lights but *they have to be wired so as to come on with the ignition*. We cannot even be trusted to turn the damn things on now, they have to be permanently on. How stupid is this? all they had to do is get the holding area/start line marshals to tell drivers to switch lights on, and any that dont comply get a black flag. They wont forget again. Instead, every time you turn the ignition on in the garage, you get a blinding red light. A red light that costs a fortune and sits there bloody wearing out.

Bah

G

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by johnw

That is why I contacted the MSA Tim. It did read to me that we could carry on with (two) existing foglights.
The man from the MSA though, he say no.

Unless the bit I have posted is a misprint then nothing has changed. If you have the Blue book with you then they couldn't argue against it.

Does anyone have the 2008 Blue book in hard copy yet?

Originally Posted by GordonG

Well, think yourselves lucky guys. The 750MC, in their infinite wisdom, have gone one better - all 750 formulae not only have to run FIA LED fog lights but *they have to be wired so as to come on with the ignition*. We cannot even be trusted to turn the damn things on now, they have to be permanently on. How stupid is this? all they had to do is get the holding area/start line marshals to tell drivers to switch lights on, and any that dont comply get a black flag. They wont forget again. Instead, every time you turn the ignition on in the garage, you get a blinding red light. A red light that costs a fortune and sits there bloody wearing out.

Bah
G

So you just leave it switched on for race day, does it say anything about it not being switched?

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by GordonG

Well, think yourselves lucky guys. The 750MC, in their infinite wisdom, have gone one better - all 750 formulae not only have to run FIA LED fog lights but *they have to be wired so as to come on with the ignition*. We cannot even be trusted to turn the damn things on now, they have to be permanently on. How stupid is this? all they had to do is get the holding area/start line marshals to tell drivers to switch lights on, and any that dont comply get a black flag. They wont forget again. Instead, every time you turn the ignition on in the garage, you get a blinding red light. A red light that costs a fortune and sits there bloody wearing out.

Bah

G

Are you all racing Volvos?

I read that the same as you Tim, i.e. nothing has changed, it certainly does not state you have to use an LED light just that you may use one, however I have seen them make wording mistakes before.

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I read that the same as you Tim, i.e. nothing has changed, it certainly does not state you have to use an LED light just that you may use one, however I have seen them make wording mistakes before.

We will have to wait for all the changes to be sent out in motorsport now, its not as if they havent had time to sort it out over the years

Well, think yourselves lucky guys. The 750MC, in their infinite wisdom, have gone one better - all 750 formulae not only have to run FIA LED fog lights but *they have to be wired so as to come on with the ignition*. We cannot even be trusted to turn the damn things on now, they have to be permanently on. How stupid is this? all they had to do is get the holding area/start line marshals to tell drivers to switch lights on, and any that dont comply get a black flag. They wont forget again. Instead, every time you turn the ignition on in the garage, you get a blinding red light. A red light that costs a fortune and sits there bloody wearing out.

To be fair most drivers dont seem to know how to turn them on, esp caterhams/locosts (off to hide now )

[scrutineer]

I will make a few points though, and im not one to defend the MSA (far from it at times)
1, They do not control the entry fees, this is down to your club who blame the circuits.
2, They do not control the cost of the rain lights/Belts/Seats etc, this is down to the manufacturer and retailer.
And at least they have not mandated HANS yet (although im all for it in some classed) which I think they have in the states, oh and they dont control the price of those either.
I agree that track days might seem like a good option, however their are restrictions on overtaking, your not allowed to time your laps, limited (almost no) marshalling cover, no checks made on your (or other) cars you dont get the same rush waiting for the lights.

[Tim Falce]

Aha but they do make the rules, so it's all their fault

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Aha but they do make the rules, so it's all their fault

Ah sorry my fault, although they do not make many of the rules either, they are in the main done by the FIA and the MSA normally wait for a few year (sometimes 5) to bring them into the blue book, this gives a long time for everyone to moan, but they still react like they knew nothing when the rules come out in print.

[midgetman]

Defend them all you like scrutineer, but the words "@r5e" and "elbow" come to mind here.

1. Motorsports Now! says you need FIA-compliant lights from 1/1/08

2. 2008 BB says an ordinary EU foglight (available from Halfrauds or wherever) is acceptable. It actually says "A rearward facing..." implying one only

3. Man on end of telephone says it's FIA lights

For goodness sake. WHICH IS IT TO BE?

Rant over

[Al Weyman]

I would imagine a five minute meeting at their headquarters followed by a five minute update on their website would put the matter to rest one way or the other, why do they have to complicate things. Bottom line is surely we go by whats in the 2008 Blue Book mistake or not you would read it, act on it end of story why would you bother to investigate further, I think if its a mistake its their printing error so surely as they have gone to press it will have to stay like that for 2008.