Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Unfortunately they are burying themselves in it, unless they pull their fingers out.

[Alwaysfirst]

I just don't see that any of these proposals are the way to go.

#1 has the same nose as the current model, often cited as being one of the ugly aspects, just with much less sponsorship space on the sidepods. If it's associated with being a bad part of the current design then why would you want to keep it?!

#2 has an improved nose cone but still not that attractive & has the same problem as #1 regarding sidepod sponsorship space

#3 just looks to be the result of somebody going 'well they want something wacky!' It isn't even that attractive IMO. There's different & then there's just we're trying too hard to find something to grab everybodys attention. Yes this would grab theire attention...but for all the wrong reasons!

I may sound fussy but if we do have to put up with a spec series then is it really too much to ask that the cars are beautiful as well as fast, provide lots of sponsorship space, safe etc....? Especially as we will probably have to put up with the design for a good few years. I'm interested to see what the other manufacturers come up with but I seriously hope that it's a bit better than Dallara's offering.

[JagtechOhio]

It's far more likely that wheel fairings and deep sidepods will be elements of Dallara's final design. Safety is the IICS number one concern, and the opportunity of a new design to prevent wheel to wheel contact will probably be siezed upon.

Engine selection will dictate some of the final styling, and cues taken fron the Delta and Swift submissions may be adapted. But the builder will be Dallara.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Maybe but Ganassi & Co seem to be behind Bowlby and his new car.

[JagtechOhio]

If you want to know what's going on, start looking. Go to Panther Racing's Facebook page and start following links.

[bjohnsonsmith]

You could always post what's happening here, that's what this forum is for; dissemination of information.

[JagtechOhio]

Thanks for the offer. I have my own agenda, and acting as an unpaid news aggregator is not why I populate message boards. I'm working channels for other reasons, and you just got a big free nugget as it is.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I'm not a Facebook subscriber, so dish up Jagtech.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe but Ganassi & Co seem to be behind Bowlby and his new car.

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

If you want to know what's going on, start looking. Go to Panther Racing's Facebook page and start following links.

A bold new direction or more of the same?

The Hulman/George clan can be tight with Dallara, but if the teams people care about decide to go a different direction, what are they going to do? Lock them out of the Indy 500?

We're getting fleeting glimpses of 1978 again. If the teams decide to go a bold new direction, there are legions of fans who would come back. If not, things will continue in the direction of the last few years, including declining attendance and ratings, and lots of excuses for why, ignoring the real reasons.

[jondownunder]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...o-to-kee-rock/

[JagtechOhio]

So Pruett writes that article, and keep in mind he hangs out with these guys. I think he went way over the top, but he's not making the issue up out of thin air.

Somebody at Panther Racing reads it, and puts up a link to it on their Facebook page with the note "Great article by our friend Marshall Pruett".

A couple of people complain, word gets around in the gossip pages, and does Panther Racing simply push a button and remove the posting from their page?

Nope. I'd say that's an endorsement for the article, and for Panther's support of the issue. They seem not to be happy that Dallara and the IICS stole the thunder of the DeltaWing's upcoming preview.

Think Ganassi is happy? Other teams have previously voiced support for the Delta initiative: anybody else p*ssed?

The political and financial incentives offered by Dallara will not be ignored, and they will get the contract. The question then becomes...how do the team owners react to the decision?

A lot more should come out between now and Wednesday, when the Delta model is unwrapped. Expect some more thunder.

[JagtechOhio]

Here's one more bit I just cane across today. The "Managing Director" working with Ben Bowlby is Dan Partel. Looking at his background, he's not specifically a race car designer. Maybe that means something, we'll see.

[jondownunder]

Lola makes Indycar proposal

"At the heart of Lola's presentation to the IRL Board was a carefully considered modern dual body style approach," said the Lola statement.

"This concept will provide two ready to race aero performance balanced Indycars that could compete even safer side by side and very close behind one another on all circuits. This would provide a unique focus for drivers, teams and fans alike without technical compromise or advantage and in addition would accommodate a dual engine supply situation if required.

"The proposed Lola Indycar for 2012 focuses on several key areas. These are safety, efficiency, engine adaptability, weight reduction (proposed 1380lbs v current 1540lbs), pleasing aesthetics with good sponsor exposure and a concentrated evaluation on significantly improving overtaking."

I'd like to see the design. I've always found most Lola cars aesthetically pleasing (A1GP spec B05/52 aside, but that was down to A1GP's demands). But as a distant observer, I can't help but fear JagtechOhio is right that a Dallara contract seems like a done deal.

If only we could see Dallara, Delta Wing, Lola and Swift racing against each other. Then I would care.

[JagtechOhio]

Yep, that's part of what caught my eye about Dan Partel. Guess who left his job as head of Lola Cars, just as the IRL was selecting chassis suppliers in 2002? Bingo.

He stated that Lola had invested $750K in that design, and it's not clear whether he left by choice or was released. Some peoples' feelings got hurt in that situation regardless. Lola apparently has come back for another taste.

Now Partel is mentioned by John Orevicz of ESPN as Delta's "Managing Director". Hmmmmmmm......

Also on his resume is experience in forming and operating a spec racing series, and advancing the racing careers of young talent he has spotted.
Hmmmmmm....

I presume that Chip Gannassi is signing Partel's pay check, I know that he signs Bowlby's...who also came from Lola. Several other owners have endorsed the Delta project. Panther racing issued public support for Pruett's scathing article against the IndyCar management and Dallara.
Hmmmmm.....

And Mr. Dallara's Friday statement confirms negotiated incentives offered to the IndyCar management and the city of Indianapolis. I say "no way" will anybody else gets serious consideration for approval. IndyCar doesn't want more than one supplier for cost containment reasons, and there won't be a big enough market to support other builders even if more were accepted.

Think Falcon, 2002. Poof. Never even got a car completed for lack of funding, and no one willing to place an order to try out the new kid's toy. That lost a couple of people a lot more than $750K.

All of this says to me that if the Delta flies, it will be because a group of present team owners decide that the future is in there hands, not in the offices of IndyCar. Public reaction to any of the choices offered by any of the participants isn't going to change that.

All the renderings, and even the Delta model to be previewed, are little more than pretty pictures. The political fallout may not be.

All of that is supposition on my part, based on the facts on the ground. I will be delighted if my supposition is dead wrong.

My contact request issued to Mr. Partel has not been answered yet. I'm sure he's busy talking to somebody.

Andy

[johntt]

http://www.16thandgeorgetown.com/201...2-concept.html

Swift have released their two concepts

[JagtechOhio]

How would you like to be the new CEO of the Izod IndyCar Series today?

You know, the man who is responsible for the oversight of both the marketing and competition divisions, who has zero motorsports experience and one week on the job so far?

Now he gets to ride herd. Over competing manufacturers, fans with split opinions, and team owners with a vested interest in the outcome of the decision.

And no engine spec for any new car to be built around.

All while the fate of 2010 and 2011 are being ignored.

Andy

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by johntt

http://www.16thandgeorgetown.com/201...2-concept.html

Swift have released their two concepts

I actually like the 2nd one.

[nickyf1]

Yeah the second one is very nice! Although I just wish they would incorporate the front wheel protecing element into a traditional front wing or something.

I still think they should just let Dallara, Swift and Delta Wing to all build the cars and let them compete though...

[jondownunder]

I must say I like both of those Swift proposals about 100 times more than Dallara's.

[jondownunder]

More on the Swift proposals:

http://www.16thandgeorgetown.com/201...more-info.html

At least there's some innovation in their proposal, though not sure I like the idea of gaudy lights all over the bodywork...

we also wanted to help communicate the car's critical information in real time to the fans. To-that-end, we are pioneering a new lighting technology which we've dubbed 'SwiftLights'. SwiftLights will display car information like throttle, brake and fuel levels as well as race position. Our light sheets are made from a 1mm thick clear plastic which can be molded over complex shapes like an IndyCar's bodywork. Swiftlights are light-weight, efficient, inexpensive, safe and extremely bright.

Whatever our final IndyCar concept design Swift will incorporate its pioneering new technology to improve passing, which we've named 'Mushroom Busters' in reference to the mushroom shape of a car's aerodynamic wake signature. The 'busters' sweep up the wake behind the leading car, thus improving the handling of the following car. We have already effectively utilized Mushroom Busters in our Formula Nippon car design, the 017.n

But this just depresses me:

Our goal is no less than for the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500 to be run exclusively with Swift chassis.

[Alwaysfirst]

I like them more than the Dallara chassis, but again to me they just look like they've gone too far with the tarting up. I like the idea of innovation but I don't see why that can't be an evolution of existing ideas rather than just throwing everything at it & hoping that it sticks. Current single seater wings look like they do for a reason, the engine has been covered for the last 30 years for a reason...I just think that it is possible to come up with something that still looks like a single seater as we know it, whilst still being different to anything else on the market.

[Purist]

The first Swift proposal has too much the F1-type wing sculpting for my taste.

The second one looks great, except that it needs a low nose; I've honestly never gotten used to or really liked the high noses with the wings hung underneath them.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Purist

The first Swift proposal has too much the F1-type wing sculpting for my taste.

The second one looks great, except that it needs a low nose; I've honestly never gotten used to or really liked the high noses with the wings hung underneath them.

I believe it's the same car with two configurations.

[nickyf1]

I expected them to go for a Formula Nippon style front wing, it provides protection from the front of the wheels and provides more ad space:

http://www.swiftengineering.com/motorsports.shtml

And the Formula Nippon car is possibly one of the best looking Single Seater cars since the Lola Champcar.

[gttouring]

swift is on to some thing
the dallara may be a tried and true builder and chassis, but the designs aren't moving forward enough (except the delta shaped car with bumper style endplates..and thas not very charming looking.)
the formula nippon car is very nice. i would tweak the front wing ...
but does any one want Indy car which should be an Apex/Pinnacle/end step form of racing to look like a smaller feeder formula series?