|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
23 Sep 2011, 05:12 (Ref:2959815) | #126 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,508
|
After 31 GP victories, being 5th on the overall wins count with only Hailwood, Doohan, Agostini and Rossi ahead of him and getting the majority of wins on a bike that no-one else can ride, it simply amazes me that these sort of comments still bubble their way to the surface.
|
||
__________________
Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same. {Oscar Wilde} |
23 Sep 2011, 15:14 (Ref:2959985) | #127 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 725
|
I suppose we all have valid opinions. Doesn't make anyone wrong, just different. Be boring otherwise.
All I want is Ducati to present a bike that is the equal of the Honda next year. |
||
__________________
C YA |
23 Sep 2011, 15:32 (Ref:2959997) | #128 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Well Rossi tested a twin-spar aluminum frame at Jerez this week. So we shall see how that goes. Early reports show it was as fast as the 800's, but not at the pace of Stoner's test on the 1000 Honda. Early days though for an entirely new concept for Ducati. The only crucial point will be, could Rossi feel the front?
|
||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
23 Sep 2011, 19:53 (Ref:2960114) | #129 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 725
|
Can someone tell me, was the original carbon-fibre stressed engine design, something done by Alan Jenkins?
If so, it proves that F1 technology isn't always transferrable, after all the engine being part of the stressed chassis goes back to 1967 with the Lotus 49, you'd think maybe bike designers have already tested this out. I remember thinking when it was announced, if Ducati really had discovered a new way, then no-one was going to be catching up for some seasons. It seems their arrogance rivals Bimota and their hub centre design. Looks good on paper but... I understand Casey wasn't listened to by the team, he seems to have the ability to do a "Ronnie Peterson" and ride through the problems. Almost like Damon Hill at Williams after Senna's death, the team didn't trust his input till Mansell came back. Maybe Rossi and Burgess are proving that the bike needs substantial changes before its race worthy |
||
__________________
C YA |
24 Sep 2011, 07:39 (Ref:2960290) | #130 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,298
|
Carbon chassis have never worked in bike racing. Plenty of people have tried them, but the most famous was Cagiva in the early 90's, they had a go, but it was too stiff, they had some success later on with a frame remarkably similar to the new Ducati one, it has a steel headstock and half rails, then glued to a carbon rest of frame, pivot area and swingarm.
PLenty of people have used them, Fulgur, Hejira and others and had success, but at the very top level the jury is out on carbon, you cant adjust it, cut it or weld to it and that makes it obselete as soon as you fit it. |
||
|
26 Sep 2011, 22:44 (Ref:2961407) | #131 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 744
|
Quote:
|
||
__________________
'Son, when you participate in sporthing events, it's not whether you win or lose... it's how drunk you get.' Homer J Simpson. |
27 Sep 2011, 00:29 (Ref:2961440) | #132 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Quote:
Edit: Re-watched the end just now just to be sure. Stoner led at the white flag and held that position for the entire last lap. |
|||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
27 Sep 2011, 02:43 (Ref:2961462) | #133 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
|
||
|
27 Sep 2011, 04:06 (Ref:2961469) | #134 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Quote:
He's only got a few years left in the sport, and while I have little desire for seeing another Rossi world title, I do want to see more Stoner-Rossi battles before he calls time on his career. If people don't appreciate that spectacle, then I guess I'm missing something. |
|||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
27 Sep 2011, 10:46 (Ref:2961573) | #135 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
Stoner's retort: "We'll speak after he's ridden the Ducati!" Was just perfect! I hate how Rossi always plays mind games, and I love how spectacularly short he has come measured against Stoner! He is good, but a lot of his success was based on the best equipment and not his skills. But good racing as always . |
||
|
27 Sep 2011, 14:56 (Ref:2961697) | #136 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
So you're writing off the majority of world champions in motorsport because they had good equipment? Might as well say the only reason Stoner is dominating this year is because of the Honda. Everyone else was closer when he was on the Duc, so he can only truly shine when he's on the best bike. Tongue in cheek of course, but hopefully you see my point.
|
||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
27 Sep 2011, 15:23 (Ref:2961713) | #137 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Some discussion on 1000 testing times from Jerez, Honda vs. Ducati.
http://motomatters.com/opinion/2011/...i_s_and_s.html So, the water is pretty muddy still, but the Valencia test is getting interesting. |
||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
28 Sep 2011, 01:36 (Ref:2961977) | #138 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
Stoner and Honda are a mighty combination, and he has two very good team mates in Pedroso and Dovi, something Rossi plain never had! As soon as Lorenzo learned his craft at Yamaha, which Rossi consistently conspired against, Rossi was out of there like a shot. Stoner in contrast was providing all the Duke guys with everything he did. Graham Hill: "The good Lord himself in a Mini is not going to beat the bird in the Etype away from the lights!" |
||
|
28 Sep 2011, 05:40 (Ref:2962007) | #139 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 744
|
Quote:
|
||
__________________
'Son, when you participate in sporthing events, it's not whether you win or lose... it's how drunk you get.' Homer J Simpson. |
28 Sep 2011, 06:39 (Ref:2962020) | #140 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,298
|
I'll tell you what I do know.
And that is that this is possibly one of the dulest, most uninspiring race series I have had the displeasure to watch. The simple fact here is that on this forum you now have the most popular thread being one that Stoner and Rossi fans are arguing over who is the best rather than talking about the races or anything that happened in any of them. You have a dullard, utterly dominant rider in every class, all backed by Spain, run by Spain, for Spain. It's exactly whatr Dorna want, but for me makes the series a total mocklery. BSB is the only series this year offering up different winners and naybe the dark horse of all series WSS. SBK is appalling, half the teams dont want to even be there let alone try and win. Let's forget the fact that Stoner could ride the damn thing quicker, we all know that now. If Rossi cant ride it that makes him less of a God, simple. But Rossi was able to win consistently on a 125 and 250 every year he was in them which Stoner was unable t do and Rlossi has won won a considerable amount more races and championships. ANd he would be winning on that damn Honda. I agree Lorenzo and Stoner have made him look a bot of a chump, but in my eyes Rossi is a proper racer, he proably hates these Scalextric bikes and I dont blame him, they have amde the worlds best race series look duller than F1 Schuey era used to be and I for one have little iterest in watching it anymore. Thanks Honda, thanks Dorna, thanks Ezpeleta, you cretin!! |
||
|
28 Sep 2011, 13:51 (Ref:2962167) | #141 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 218
|
Actually, at the beginning of this year I was thoroughly over it. I contemplated making a "why I'm over motogp" thread, but never got around to it. At any rate might as well pull some of it up from the memory now:
- 4.5 spanish races, 500 spanish riders, spanish teams, spanish sponsorship money etc - Mamola's 2-seater desmosedici at the races. After 4 days camping in the cold/mud of PI, I don't want to sit at the fence in antartic winds watching two guys do "everyone gets a cookie" laps - 1 hour break between moto2 and motogp at the circuit during which time nothing happens - Coverage and commentary pales compared to F1 Other gripes were more minor; lack of interesting circuits, etc. To be honest I can't really remember them, started off as a list of 8ish. |
||
|
28 Sep 2011, 15:01 (Ref:2962181) | #142 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Quote:
Maybe the thread has run it's course, since there really isn't much left to be said about Rossi and Stoner. The only interesting thing left is the bike, but it seems nobody cares about that... As for this forum, like it was in 2007, lots of interest in Stoner, but it doesn't really transfer over to any interest in bike racing. Sad. |
|||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
28 Sep 2011, 23:07 (Ref:2962328) | #143 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 744
|
True, The racing is pretty dull. Everyone says it's the fault of the 800 and how it has to be ridden, and all the electronics that are now on the bikes. This may be the case but does anyone really think that the 1000's will be any different ??? I have severe doubts. I feel that the electronics will just make the bikes like the 800's with a bit extra capacity
|
|
__________________
'Son, when you participate in sporthing events, it's not whether you win or lose... it's how drunk you get.' Homer J Simpson. |
29 Sep 2011, 05:24 (Ref:2962393) | #144 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
Honda now have 3 of the best 4 riders in the field, the fourth being Lorenzo at Yamaha, that is the problem, not the electronics. |
||
|
29 Sep 2011, 06:40 (Ref:2962407) | #145 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,298
|
The electronics is definately the issue here, not the fact that the best riders are on good bikes.
In the era when tyre management was down to a riders ability to push the front then spin the rear when the tyre went off, someone like Rossi,Doohan or Rainey could manage their race with more ease, knowing that their rival be they Cadalora, Biaggi, Barros or whoever couldnt do the same. Now, it's all about edge grip. You can't do anything when the edge grip has gone because electronics have now enabled riders to not only have to not worry about rear tyre life as much, they can also just go as fast as they can in the bends until the edge grip runs out. This is a result of the 800 style putting all the emphasis on turn speed and very little on rear tyre management as the aids can now just let that happen gradually. The skill in this now is down to engineers setting the aids so that rider can adjust them as he goes, riding with those aids. This is also a skill obviously, but not the same. 1000cc engines will have more torque in time, meaning TC will be ever more vital. They have more engine braking and I am hoping in time for a ban in electronics, allowing riders to be able to show their true skills. Being able to ride a powerful bike with no help from the man most import now in any team, the data engineer! |
||
|
29 Sep 2011, 10:18 (Ref:2962462) | #146 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 725
|
|||
__________________
C YA |
29 Sep 2011, 11:21 (Ref:2962487) | #147 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
||
|
29 Sep 2011, 14:36 (Ref:2962552) | #148 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
|||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
29 Sep 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2962602) | #149 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 218
|
I don't know that altering traction control on the bike can produce a large enough effect on the racing. It will change how the bikes are ridden, but may not bring them closer on-circuit for the full 45 minutes. There will still only be 2-3 teams capable of winning, and that will remain dependent on cash flow and the level of commitment of the manufacturers. There was no TC in the Doohan era and I still feel somewhat sorry for anyone who wasn't an aussie during that period. The ability of a single team to throw cash, Doohan, development and Burgess at the bike over-ruled Team Rainey's efforts.
Just an idle thought, but does anyone think the move to Moto2 with it's spec engine and claiming rules (effectively ruling out manufacturer presence and providing a support base to Suter/FTR/Tech3/Moriwaki), and also the CRT teams next year are part of a longer term effort by Dorna to build up a significant non-manufacturer presence in MotoGP? And by significant, I'm thinking they could eventually manipulate a multi-decade switch over to prototypes built by garagista teams with engines supplied by manufacturers, essentially removing factory bikes from the picture. Hopefully I've enunciated this concept well enough, as being less of an increased presence of also-rans, and more of a long-term restructuring of the actual players involved and decreased reliance on manufacturers. Part of the problem with the premier class is there's rarely more than two major parties at any one time, with one slightly outspending the other. It's then mostly in their interest to maintain a degree of status quo. For this reason we see lower-speed expensive satellite bikes being the only option made to privateers. They're not fast enough to catch the factory bikes, and they're too expensive to result in large grids. |
||
|
30 Sep 2011, 06:34 (Ref:2962815) | #150 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,298
|
The problem in the Doohan era was that Yamaha dodnt have a good enough rider to beat him, the guy that got closest in fatc was his best mate, Daryl Beattie on the Suzuki in 95, he ran him pretty close and rattled Mick into mistakes, it was only when Daryl got hurt he lost the impetus, but he was on fire that year.
Yamaha never had anyone good enough. CAdalora was like Biaggi, good one week, poor the next and that's coz he couldnt proficiently spin the rear. I dont think banning TC will make the racing closer much, that wasnt my point. But It could perhaps allow a rider who is able to ride the back end more get better results if they can set hte bike up well, like Crafar did in 98, or Laconi at times. Keny Ronerts would have a lod more races if he was on a bike that allowed him to spin the rear, the RGV was never able to do that on the tyres he was on, unlike Schwantz who could spin it up on the poorer tyres of the early 90's. |
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Fisi - "Rossi too old for F1" | Kirk | Formula One | 75 | 10 Sep 2005 20:15 |