The 'Credit Crunch' and the Future of Club Motor Sport

[Al Weyman]

Rod as all of us in business know if we cannot sell our products we either adjust our prices or go out of business. If tracks owners think they are beyond this basic law of business well all I can say is some of them are in for a very rude awakening. We all have to adjust in this current climate whether we like it or not.

[Rod Birley]

Well said Al, but I am afraid they are not listening. There is a theory that we will pay anything to carry on racing, but I wonder how many people actually will.

[Copperbottom]

[quote=Rod Birley]There is a theory that we will pay anything to carry on racing, but I wonder how many people actually will.[/quote]
I for one won't/can't

[Al Weyman]

I am afraid that goes for me too, its more important my business survives and I will only race if the jobs are coming in and currently they have slowed right down. I think circuit owners may well be in for a bit of a wake up call next year and i hope they act accordingly and responsibly so both they and us can continue doing what we love. We are all going to have to make cuts. I mean even if you have savings and or property everyday the true value is dropping, its begining to get very worrying.

[andy97]

I think that even people in work & with a reasonable disposable income will start to question their priorities - many people may think that its better to build up a pot of cash than spend it on racing, just in case something does go wrong. Most of us, for eg, will have personal pension plans that are now worth 20-25% less than they were a few months ago; it might therefore be seen as sensible to try to put some more money aside into another means of saving, even if it is only under the bed, rather than spend it on frivolous activities like racing. My better half thinks so anyway, & above all I have to justify my racing to her!!! I for one, will probably not bother racing if it involves long hauls and overnight stays (except for Anglesey).

I really hope that the club hierarchies and the circuit owners are reading this thread!

I suppose that the upside, if there is one, is that "used car prices" may come down & it might be possible to buy that (insert desired car) that you always promised yourself!!!

[Al Weyman]

Thats no upside if you want to sell said desirable car though Andy. As for building up a pot of cash, why bother with the rate the pound is decending, may as well spend it on something tangable in which case desirable car prices like gold may well go up not down.

[XJS18]

Having read most of this thread, I am pleased to see that many people are taking this problem seriously! Clearly some people will have better ideas than others on improving the situation but the important thing is that we are considering it.

At the end of the day it doesent matter if Joe Bloggs has bags of cash, if many of the other drivers in his series are struggling with justifying the outlay.

Clearly series like TTRS and the Lotus one mentioned are the way to go for drivers that don't consider a £300 entry fee as petty cash!

I do think however that everyone involved in club racing needs to come up with similar initiatives. The track owners for instance. Now I do not profess to know a great deal about their business, but the likes of Donnington have been putting on music events for many years. Snetterton and Donnington have attracted a number of companies with related business strategies to set up on their property. The latest being the resurected Norton Motorcycles.
There must be numerous events that could take place on non race/track days to help make the site more viable.

Although I have to agree that it would be a struggle to get more paying spectators in to a club racing weekend merely by spreading the word. What needs to be done (as has already been suggested and largely ignored) is to provide other interests on site for the members of family and friends that don't want to stand in the rain all day watching cars going round and round.

With a bit of vision, something could be provided to amuse most of the family and make a few extra bob for the track owner. There could be a games room with pool, fruit machines, video games, and the internet etc. Most of our better halves love a wander around a market. Snetterton is always popular with Mrs XJS18!

One of the biggest crowds I can remember was a Ferrari weekend at Brands that was followed in the evening by a concert.

Getting ordinary car clubs to hold their events at the circuit to combine with races featuring their marque is another good way of bringing in a few bob and generating interest in others taking up racing.

My biggest concern is the many clubs and circuits that are just going to sit back and hope that everythings going to be OK. It won't!

[Al Weyman]

This pricing thing was raised several times at the CTRCC AGM as you can imagine and not just by me :-). The TTRS way of doing it was obviously discussed and something that came out and I am afraid I had to see the point was that where as a single formula series like TTRS provided you have willing volunteers prepared to give up their time for free to do all the entries etc. then yes savings can be made, also you need a group of drivers prepared to commit and not just verbally but also putting up their cash. Now this would not be at all easy in a club like CTCRC with no less than 5 series/championships on the boil and no paid staff. And also because of that its virtually impossible to fill 5 grids as many like the Classic and Historics like we discussed before simply do not want to amalgamate. Therefore the only option in a scenario like this is to get a club like BARC to host the meetings for us where their paid professional staff can do all the slog without relying on the good will of volunteers who may one day say I have had enough! I don't think we are alone in this either. Also TTRS only need to find the one or two slots, imagine trying to find 5 each time, probably not possible.

One thing that did come out at the AGM is our entries will be frozen at 08 levels and 2nd races will still be £100 and a 3rd if you are really greedy just £75 so not all bad eh?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

And also because of that its virtually impossible to fill 5 grids as many like the Classic and Historics like we discussed before simply do not want to amalgamate.

That's another problem, there's still too many different formula wanting their own separate grids. We all want the clubs and track owners to capitulate on prices but drivers are unwilling to wake up to facts and share grids. I believe the TTRS have got round this by giving winners garlands to each class and treating them as a race win not a class win. Clubs like the CSCC are being generous if they give a cap to the overall winner and won't even provide more when they amalgamate races which I know has put more than one person off racing with them.

So it's not only the track owners that are intransigent, the racers and clubs need to join the real world.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Clubs like the CSCC are being generous if they give a cap to the overall winner and won't even provide more when they amalgamate races which I know has put more than one person off racing with them.

Don't think thats true at all, I had a very reasonable quality cut glass whiskey tumbler for my one and only class win this year and overall class "best performers" (its a series not a championship) received very nice decanters at the end of year "do". In my experience its the BRSCC that only give out baseball caps...and they have far higher entry fees than the CSCC, too.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I believe the TTRS have got round this by giving winners garlands to each class and treating them as a race win not a class win

You are correct in your beliefs Tim
TTRS ethos is a class win is effectively a race win, so garlands and good trophies are the same for each class winner as the overall winner.

I understand where everyone is coming from re the circuit owners, but I imagine that their operating costs are subject to the same increases as the rest of us. They are businesses despite some calling themselves clubs.

That said, a 35% increase is outrageous.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by johnw

....I understand where everyone is coming from re the circuit owners, but I imagine that their operating costs are subject to the same increases as the rest of us. They are businesses despite some calling themselves clubs.
That said, a 35% increase is outrageous.

RPI / inflation is IIRC currently close to zero and is predicted to be negative next year; ergo ANY increase is outrageous and is just shooting themselves in the foot.

[Peter Mallett]

Except that they necessarily calculate their costs on last year's expenditure. Ergo we get the hit for increased overheads from last year. Also don't forget inflation is a year on year figure, so even if it is lower than last year it is still an increase over the period.

Edit: BTW I don't condone a 35% increase.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

RPI / inflation is IIRC currently close to zero and is predicted to be negative next year; ergo ANY increase is outrageous and is just shooting themselves in the foot.

Hmmm... Just looking at my council tax, heating, lighting and wages bills and can't see any reduction from last year.
I'd guess that the circuits are not buying many clothes, shoes and electrical goods which would help bring down their costs

[midgetman]

Well there's still people wanting to take part in motor sport, just maybe not circuit racing as we know it:

1. Last Sunday there was a full house of 18 teams at Thruxton kart track

2. My racewear sales volumes are up, although the value is down - more people buying presents than previous years, but spending less money

So if you want to get a fix of watching motor sport, perhaps you'll have to be a bit more imaginative than just going to the major race circuits. Perhaps that'll snap them out of their complacency.

[midgetman]

RPI is a totally manufactured figure to make the government look good. In the real world I agree circuit costs have ballooned. Also, wonder how much of e.g. Lydden's charges increasing are because it has been run at a loss in the past and it's just catching up?

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by midgetman

wonder how much of e.g. Lydden's charges increasing are because it has been run at a loss in the past and it's just catching up?

Its a while since I've been to Lydden but I dont recall there being much there other than an old bus as race control and some tarmac. Don't get me wrong, I think its a great little circuit, but all buisnesses need to diversify these days. I think they call it added value.

For the last 5 years most of our customers have demanded a price decrease every year, and usually they get it. Its amazing what you can do if you put your mind to it and if the will is there!

I have suggested that the circuits diversify and think of ways to reduce charges to clubs. They will only do this if enough pressure is put upon them. We woulldn't have reduced our prices unless we had been forced to! Would anyone!

[andy97]

Well the HSCC have announced in todays MN that 3 days have been cut from its racing calendar in 2009 & that includes no meeting at Pembrey and only one meeting at Donington. They have also agreed not to increase membership fees (they don't mention race entry fees, though). Some of the clubs seem to have got the the message but if circuits like Pembrey are cut from calendars will they survive?

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by andy97

but if circuits like Pembrey are cut from calendars will they survive?

I guess the reasoning behind cutting Pembrey is that fewer drivers make the trip in good times due to worrying that if they cross the border they'll fall off the edge of the planet? Motivation or lack of it can only get worse in the bad times.

I would like to think that the clubs would give more consideration to value for money than that its too far for some people. There are of course several ways you can reduce the cost of transporting the car to the track. Trade in your 8MPG Winnibago for a more modest Diesel camper. Run your tow vehicle on LPG or even better Bio diesel. As I have said earlier everyone involved in the sport needs to look at ways to make it affordable in 2009.

[andy97]

I still think that the answer is much more regional or single circuit series at the clubman level but even club level racing drivers seem to insist that its a good idea to drive 200 miles to Brands one month for a 15 min race and then 200 miles to Croft next month for another 15 min race. Barking.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by andy97

Don't think thats true at all, I had a very reasonable quality cut glass whiskey tumbler for my one and only class win this year and overall class "best performers" (its a series not a championship) received very nice decanters at the end of year "do". In my experience its the BRSCC that only give out baseball caps...and they have far higher entry fees than the CSCC, too.

That maybe true if you race in one of their own series but the invited series such as the Jaguars seem to get the left overs, if there are any. Although the CSCC may be cheaper than the BRSCC, they are still a lot dearer than quite a few of the other clubs.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by falcemob

That maybe true if you race in one of their own series but the invited series such as the Jaguars seem to get the left overs, if there are any. Although the CSCC may be cheaper than the BRSCC, they are still a lot dearer than quite a few of the other clubs.

Facts please. £ per minute track time with the CSCC own series is almost certainly one of the cheapest in the UK. I can't comment particularly on guest series costs.

[Al Weyman]

Run your tow vehicle on LPG

And if you are already doing that??? Not to mention sleeping in the car. All this talk about long distanses assumes every one lives down south or the Midlands, some live close to places like Croft. For my money I will have to think hard on Croft again as I was not over impresed with what was on offer.

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by andy97

Idrivers seem to insist that its a good idea to drive 200 miles to Brands one month for a 15 min race and then 200 miles to Croft next month for another 15 min race. Barking.

We are of course all individuals and have very different requirements. I personaly would much rather spend 4 hours travelling to Croft, than an hour to the Silverstone "Mickey Mouse" circuit. The GP configuration is of course another matter!

The actual racing bit is only a small part of my race weekends. I would soon get bored going to the same circuit every few weeks, bt then I'm not trying to win a championship (the odd race would be nice though )

Regarding the JEC (Jaguar races) with the CSCC, this is just an easy option for them and is not likely to meet the drivers desires for track, date, or VFM! This might be part of the reason that the XJS's only had IRO grids of 15 this year, and the Powered by Jaguars averaged around about 3!

[Al Weyman]

The actual racing bit is only a small part of my race weekends. I would soon get bored going to the same circuit every few weeks, bt then I'm not trying to win a championship (the odd race would be nice though )

I agree with that statement which is always my argument against the double header format as I dont want my season squashed into 6 UK rounds as TTRS have done for 09. I always argue why stop at a double header why not do 4 races in a weekend and get the whole troublesome afair over in three sessions.