Peugeot 908 for '09

[fanfisique]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Is it? I see a new, smaller, and unproven engine being pushed harder to match the Peugeot. And where are we getting the double-digit fuel economy increase from? Right now I don't think anything is a sure thing...though let's talk after Sebring.

That the R15 will make up to 15% savings in terms of fuel consumption is just out of equation: when they announce that the capacity of their R15 engine is, as I said, 3,700 litres, you´ll be informes...That´s the only reason they anticipated 2011 rules...a gain of 5% is not worthness of the time and money spent.

Yet what you said is exactly what others said about the R10 engine back in 2006...but guess what...it won each and all of the races it participated.

The Pugs are gonna eat Audi alive in qualifying, but Audi will benefit from both well known factors: fuel savings and pitstop effectiveness, this year let´s add a few more: better performance over the hole stint as the chassis will cope better with fuel load due to engine´s low weight and center of gravity + a more effective and light chassis.

Pugs will reduce some kilos before lemans...but their achiles talon is even more accentuate now the new R15 competitor is on the way: Fuel consumption.

Amen to than Mike...

[Tom908V12]

Looks like Peugeot will announce program and drivers only the 9th february

No idea why the decision that should have normally been taken this week(Quesnel said for the Monte-Carlo/IRC rally)has been postponed...

[Tim the Grey]

As I posted earlier? I have a photo of the Pug stand at Autosport, showing all the LMS dates, and LM24... This was in Peugeot corporate colours, on the Peugeot stand.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by isynge

On the one hand, they've now got the competition that interests them, but would they appreciate being beaten by a 'privateer' Audi outfit?

I dont see a privateer Audi R10 being a serious threat unless they have full works support (ie team joest personell) and the works drivers or their equivelant (which may be hard to achieve) - remember The peugeot was only the winner last year through some fantastic driving and the legendary pit stop efficency of team Joest

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Mal

I dont see a privateer Audi R10 being a serious threat unless they have full works support (ie team joest personell) and the works drivers or their equivelant (which may be hard to achieve) - remember The peugeot was only the winner last year through some fantastic driving and the legendary pit stop efficency of team Joest

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more than a handful of Joest Audi guys in the Kolles pit. I found the wording of the Audi release, talking about "no support beyond the service agreement" interesting. This keeps the door open for a lot more than just an archetypal used car deal.

To my eyes this is a way of Audi participating in the LMS while preserving plausible deniability to shareholders who may question spending money on a race programme in the current climate. As others have said, Audi's already spent the thick end of what a 2009 campaign would cost, and they'll have to keep the team in place for the Sebring and Le Mans entries anyway, so they've got the resources, and it might be seen as silly not to use them. Indeed, if Audi do not support the Kolles entry this would be something of a first for them.

Happy to be proven wrong on this, but something tells me that the Kolles entry could be really very significant.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by isynge

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more than a handful of Joest Audi guys in the Kolles pit. I found the wording of the Audi release, talking about "no support beyond the service agreement" interesting. This keeps the door open for a lot more than just an archetypal used car deal.

To my eyes this is a way of Audi participating in the LMS while preserving plausible deniability to shareholders who may question spending money on a race programme in the current climate. As others have said, Audi's already spent the thick end of what a 2009 campaign would cost, and they'll have to keep the team in place for the Sebring and Le Mans entries anyway, so they've got the resources, and it might be seen as silly not to use them. Indeed, if Audi do not support the Kolles entry this would be something of a first for them.

Happy to be proven wrong on this, but something tells me that the Kolles entry could be really very significant.

Very correct!, i think we will se something there will remind us of 2004, where Dr. Ullrich where running around to all the Audi's and giving support!, except this time it will only be at Kolles we would find Ullrich and Team Joest!

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by isynge

As others have said, Audi's already spent the thick end of what a 2009 campaign would cost, and they'll have to keep the team in place for the Sebring and Le Mans entries anyway, so they've got the resources, and it might be seen as silly not to use them.

Why not just use the R15 then? It could use the additional mileage, especially with the LM test day cancelled.

I wonder who's paying for the new aero kit for the R10...

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Why not just use the R15 then? It could use the additional mileage, especially with the LM test day cancelled.

I wonder who's paying for the new aero kit for the R10...

Perfectly fair point, especially re the new aero package.

I guess you could see it as a hedge against niggles with the R15. The R10 is known to be capable of putting a 908 under pressure and forcing the Peugeot to respond. Given Audi's usual approach of running with the older cars between Sebring and Le Mans, it's possible to think of this as just a continuation of it - perhaps even with them switching to R15s post Le Mans?

Either way, I don't think Peugeot, if they do come to the LMS can bank on running away with it.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by isynge

Perfectly fair point, especially re the new aero package.

I guess you could see it as a hedge against niggles with the R15. The R10 is known to be capable of putting a 908 under pressure and forcing the Peugeot to respond. Given Audi's usual approach of running with the older cars between Sebring and Le Mans, it's possible to think of this as just a continuation of it - perhaps even with them switching to R15s post Le Mans?

Either way, I don't think Peugeot, if they do come to the LMS can bank on running away with it.

After 2007, where there really wasn't any real competition, they where close to loosing the title to Pescarolo!.
Peugeot's problem was in both 2007 Lms, 2008 Lms, and kinda also 2008 Le Mans, was that the car which lead the championship broke in the next race, and then the other car won, where a Pescarolo or Audi could score 2nd every time, and there for score more points!. At Le Mans, i believe it was the 9# Pug, which has lead for some time, and got a pretty good gap down to 2nd, but then had some misfortune, and then another Pug led, but with less of a gap down to Audi. (Hope that made some kind of sense )

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by CTD

After 2007, where there really wasn't any real competition, they where close to loosing the title to Pescarolo!.
Peugeot's problem was in both 2007 Lms, 2008 Lms, and kinda also 2008 Le Mans, was that the car which lead the championship broke in the next race, and then the other car won, where a Pescarolo or Audi could score 2nd every time, and there for score more points!. At Le Mans, i believe it was the 9# Pug, which has lead for some time, and got a pretty good gap down to 2nd, but then had some misfortune, and then another Pug led, but with less of a gap down to Audi. (Hope that made some kind of sense )

My thoughts too... and maybe to much pressure, apart from the broken cars, failure in strategie and errors in pit-stops...

[TWK]

The lesson is team, team, team...and Peugeot should read the graphics on the car and the entry form for the first two words....Team Total....

In this sport (as in most) it takes only one weak link to be beaten, one mechanical part, one driver error, one pit lane mistake, one error of race tactics.

Champion's 2005 Le Mans win with the R8 is an excellent case of a team win against a faster foe, as was Corvette's win in the same year.

[zac510]

Anyone think Pirro might get a drive in the R10? Though you'd think Kolles would want some privateers who can pay for the running.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by zac510

Anyone think Pirro might get a drive in the R10? Though you'd think Kolles would want some privateers who can pay for the running.

Its a possibility. As to someone paying for a seat in one? I think not! To me this is a thinly veiled end run on the board of directors. Audi will not let just anyone pilot their cars, I suspect the vast majority of drivers will be un-occupied Audi works pilots ( on lease).



L.P.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by zac510

Anyone think Pirro might get a drive in the R10? Though you'd think Kolles would want some privateers who can pay for the running.

Don't think so. I am shure Audi wants to keep the works team separated from the privateers. And Pirro was a former works driver and also is on their pay roll. But in addition to the young Christian Bakkerud Kolles needs an experienced P1/P2 driver...

Who is available? Franck Montagny, Jean-Marc Gounon, Stéphane Ortelli, Gunnar Jeanette, Mika Salo, Jan Lammers, Stefan Johansson, Joao Barbosa
or Jos Verstappen?

[fanfisique]

Sarrazin back into the Rally cars...

Pos Driver Car Time
1. Juho Hanninen Skoda 56:32.8
2. Stephane Sarrazin Peugeot + 11.9
3. Nicolas Vouilloz Peugeot + 33.9
4. Sebastien Ogier Peugeot + 49.3
5. Freddy Loix Peugeot + 54.6
6. Kris Meeke Peugeot +1:01.3
7. Giandomenico Basso Abarth +1:29.8
8. Toni Gardemeister Abarth +1:35.5
9. Franz Wittmann Mitsubishi +3:31.2
10. Jan Kopecky Skoda +4:30.0

He´s doing great at Monte.

[CTD]

Isn't Montagny driving for Peugeot and Acura?

[Dauer 962]

Interesting fact is that the Audi board of Directors hasn’t approved the Kolles deal yet – tough it shall be only formality after the official Audi release.

[zac510]

Originally Posted by carsten66

Don't think so. I am shure Audi wants to keep the works team separated from the privateers. And Pirro was a former works driver and also is on their pay roll. But in addition to the young Christian Bakkerud Kolles needs an experienced P1/P2 driver...

Who is available? Franck Montagny, Jean-Marc Gounon, Stéphane Ortelli, Gunnar Jeanette, Mika Salo, Jan Lammers, Stefan Johansson, Joao Barbosa
or Jos Verstappen?

If it's as much as a pseudo-factory effort as Horndawg thinks then we'll have half the DTM field at the 24hrs!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Dauer 962

Interesting fact is that the Audi board of Directors hasn’t approved the Kolles deal yet

Alan Randall !!! .....

[Dauer 962]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Alan Randall !!! .....

until now Kolles hasn´t claimed that he has sponsors from Saudi-Arabia

[The Badger]

He has no sponsors at all ..... let alone from Arabia !!!

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by CTD

Isn't Montagny driving for Peugeot and Acura?

Last season Montagny's only appearance for Peugeot was at the Le Mans 24 Hours. He spent most of the year in America - first in the Champ Car finale at Long Beach in the second Forsythe machine and after LM he returned racing in Andretti-Green's Acura in the second half of the ALMS.

In 2009 he only is reconfirmed for the 24 H...

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by fanfisique

Sarrazin back into the Rally cars...



He´s doing great at Monte.

Off road on SS4 this morning, and is only 6th now(2 minutes gap with 5th)despite two other best times...

[Tim the Grey]

I used to work with him when I was at Ford...
It was Brunei, not Saudi.

He had not a single good word for Bernie or Tom.

[fanfisique]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Off road on SS4 this morning, and is only 6th now(2 minutes gap with 5th)despite two other best times...

Check the IRC series site...they had live coverage of some stages, I saw last two (Col Turini included) delayed and Sarrazin was 3rd on the podium and was fastest at Turini by 30 seconds...