Ralt RT 1

[JBL]

I went to see the RT1-24 yesterday. It is painted blue-white and fitted with a F3, 2-litre Toyota engine. Does anyone know more about the car? I understood it was sold new to Italy.

[Chris Townsend]

According to Ralt records sold with a Ford t/c engine as new, and to Italy. This would probably mean it was Luciano Pavesi's car in 1976 F3 which is the only Italian RT1 with a t/c that I can find. [Pedersoli, who bought RT1-1 which in 1975 had run a t/c, took it out and fitted a Toyota immediately]

Chris

[AMICALEMANS]

i saw RT1-36 at LMstory 2007, the car is yellow and blue fitted with a Toyota engine. The car compete in http://www.f3classic.com/site.php?page=pilote
(i dont remember the name of the driver, i will post a pic soon) There is a sticker on the car telling the name of the first owner.

[Dan Rear]

Are you sure on RT1-36? According to Adam's list much higher up, -36 was a 1976 FAt car, sold to Robertson in the US. Seems odd that it now appears as an F3 car...

[driftwood]

not easy to modify the car
gbox change engine adaptor plate probably rear uprights maybe brake discs wishbones all round rear wing is smaller on F3
wheels are different width why would u alter a car at that expense when u could buy a ready made car

[AMICALEMANS]

i was sure that you were doubtfull, that is why i took two pics : one of the car and one of the chassis......plate

I will put it on this thread soon

[Chris Townsend]

Why not an F3? It was probably last seen as an FSV!
The chassis number is given in the Autosport list of early Ralts as an Atlantic sold via Robertson.
It was sold to Dave McMillan and the chassis number was noted by David McKinney in the 1977 Peter Stuyvesant series. The car was then used by McMillan in the US and when he teamed up with Ray Lipper's Centerline Wheels operation the car seems to have gone to Lipper who eventually seems to have turned it into an FSV. [I have the necessary references to demonstrate this]

It would be a relatively easy matter to go to an F3 from FSV I'd have thought. Remember that these cars shared a common tub. I seem to have one example of a car [Dick Moody's] going from FSV to Atlantic and back again in the space of a year.

Be interesting to see whose they claim it was;
2-1 Piquet
3-1 de Angelis
5-1 Lammers
5-1 Senna [yes I am aware that Senna never drove an RT1]
10-1 Warwick
20-1 Acheson


Chris

[AMICALEMANS]

These F3 classic races in France are not so strict regulation... they ran with some FRenault Turbo (there is a March 75R wich is a rarity even in France !)

[driftwood]

yes Chris FSV and F3 is the same car but the atlantic is a larger dimension car on wishbones ( for track width) plus gbox and some of the rear uprights on ralts change in shape size casuing headache for supplying car parts
wheels are wider too for atlantic

the rt3 and rt5 are so close in their parts and design its fair to say the cars could be the same however i do find difference sin upright castings to make them different
im not questioning every car thats converted from FSV F3 to atlantic or vice versa but just pointing out its not a simple engine change!!
the gearbox is a major ££ component plus wheel sizes maybe brake discs (often calipres are the same or maybe 1 axle needs an upgrade) rear wing will change in dimensions either due to rules or down force/speed reasons
another small difference for usa cars is the roll hoop and forward brace bars they have to fit not sure when the rules changed but u can see many usa race car fotos a forward side brace that uk eec cars did not need to run

[AMICALEMANS]

Here i tell the truth !

[AMICALEMANS]

i spotted also RT3 -206 and a March 75R . there were plenty of Ralt at LM Story, just check the website above...

[Chris Townsend]

Re the plates on RT1-36, I can't make these big enough to be legible, but...

Ralt chassis plate is [1978 Atlantic at any rate] black bakelite, white lettering, on the dash to the right hand side.

Chris

[driftwood]

did u click the foto ?
it will get bigger

i was puzzled by the plate being silver
if plate is not on dash often down on the frame around the drivers footwell on later cars

[AMICALEMANS]

The driver is DUMOLIE Daniel from Toulouse (number 31 is Toulouse !) (first season) he stand up near the car.

On the side of the car, there is a sentence :
"ran by D.McMillan - new zealand pacific race


and the car was registrated by some serious english people !!!! CLASSIC F3 ASSOCIATION http://www.classicf3.co.uk/

[Chris Townsend]

Great, absolutely right about the car! Wonder where he got it from.
Are you likely to encounter the car again? I have Ray Lipper selling this car in California as an FSV with an Atlantic tub in the early 1980s. I'd be interested in the intermediate history.

Did click on the images, but they didn't get any bigger for me...

Chris

[driftwood]

FA tub is same tub as F3/ FSV except the rear end for fuel cell is longer therefor overall length of tub will be aprox 2-5 inches bigger on the FA car over F3/ FSV
in theory the FA F2 rt1 is same machine except the rt1 f2 tub had side impact crash structure fitted ( rules i believe) the F3 FSV had narrower track wishbones im sure the rear uprights vary but that might be an upgrade as the car did run over 5 years
it will not be a simple swap over from FA to F3 or vice versa would be cheaper to sell 1 car and buy the other model!

[AMICALEMANS]

just try to contact Daniel Dumolie via his company website :

http://www.boxer-bikes.fr/presentation.php

(sorry you have to click the pic and then the pic will appear in an other window)

[Dan Rear]

The pics enlarged for me too. Well who would've thought it, a 76 FAt RT1 goes to NZ, then the States where converted to FSV. It turns up nearly 30 yrs after as an F3! The power of the web, and the genius of Ron T!!

[driftwood]

someone has spent a lot of money ruining an FA car to make it into f3 car
that is like taking a V12 ferrari f1 engne cut off 2 cylinders to make modern f1 engine- cheaper to get the right motor in the 1st place

[AMICALEMANS]

Only an englishman can do that

This car was running, before this year, in F3 Classic in.......UK ! ? according to the 2nd plate !

[Chris Townsend]

Drifty,

If it's been an FSV with an Atlantic tub perhaps it isn't as modified as we think. Would the extra length for the Atlantic tub with whcih it was advertised imply a longer wheelbase than usual rahter than the back of the tub being butchered? IIRC some F3 teams [Racing Team Holland I think] were putting a spacer in to lengthen the wheelbase in period.
Would FSV suspension have a similar geometry to F3 given the very similar wheel sizes?

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Further to the modification of this car RT1-36 as a FSV.
It was modified by Dave McMillan himself when he lost his Psachie RT5 drive mid season [Sports Car Oct 1980 p.44]
There wasn't much alternative, it seems to me. He was leading the series at teh time. There wasn't any way he could afford an RT5, even if one was available [and Ralt were late delivering cars to FSV spec that season] and the RT1 FSV was certainly still capable of podium places - he was 8th on debut with the car with another RT1 ahead of him - which might have been enough to take enough points for the title. Unfortunately he threw it at the wall at Minneapolis State Fair next time and hurt himself and missed a couple of races.

So, the original changes to this car are period rahter than some modern butchery.

chris

[DANIELD]

hI,

I am Daniel Dumolié the owner of the RT1 36; several months ago I spoke with Adam Ferrington who give me a lot of informations
The car ran in formula Atlantic and came back in England in 1990, it was modified on F3 classic with a Toyota; a french driver Remy Fraisse restored the car and last year I bought the car. Remy did not know its history, I discovered its history with the refernce of frame.
I run for the first year the championship F3 classic and I was in Le Mans last week, I will be in LEDENON and MAGNYCOURS IN September and October.
I spoke to with Gaving Show who is a car photograph in New Zealand, he try to find pictures of the car, the sponsor was citizen; I dream to find a picture.
If anybody have informations I am very interesting.
Thank you very much ( sorry for my English, I am a french gentleman)

[Chris Townsend]

Daniel

Welcome. I have two pictures of the car when it was raced by David McMillan in the 1977 series in New Zealand with sponsorship from Citizen watches.
I also have a contact for David's former mechanic from that series, who would probably have more material and would be delighted to learn of the car's survival.

If you send me a private message with your email I will send you the images and this man's address.

Chris

[DANIELD]

Thank you CHRIS,

My e mail adress is dumolie.daniel@numericable.fr

What a good news!!