2012 IndyCar schedule

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

All of that globe trotting sure worked out for Camp Car, didn't it?

Ansan and Zhuhai were incredible events! Almost as good as the Hawaiian Super Prix.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I don't remember where I read it, but the Chinese race is meant to make IndyCar break even financially. It's just a temporal cash cow.

That just highlights the problem with IndyCar, a quick fix rather than a long term plan.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Maybe it is just me, but I think that IndyCar needs to have its collective head examined for brain damage for wanting to go to China.

It doesn't help any of the team sponsors to go there in an economic climate where it is tough enough to get sponsors in the first place for races over here.

JMHO...feel free to disagree.

The irl has been brain damaged from the very beginning, so this is nothing new.

I don't know why it is all a surprise.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I think IndyCar's thought process is that even if they alienate sponsors, they will attract dozens and dozens of exciting new Chinese ones...

...not saying they're correct, but having TrinaSolar on the Schmidt cars must have made them starstruck by the potential for Chinese money. If they profit, miffed sponsors and owners will mean nothing...after all, they're always miffed.

The problem is that whole "if they profit" part. They certainly have had plans that didn't work before...

So by some type of osmosis, Chinese sponsors will flock to the irl in droves?

You have to do more than just show up.

Plenty of other series have raced in China and it hasn't brought a flood of Chinese money to any series, including F1.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

All of that globe trotting sure worked out for Camp Car, didn't it?

At least with China, the big problem was the FIA. So good luck.

Some of the european races worked out well and had good crowds.

Overall though, it's not a strategy I'd necessarily employ.

It's hilarious that the irl is thrashing around with all this nonsense, yet tony george threw away a long established and well funded and totally paid for irl race at the Gold Coast in Australia. How stupid can one be?

I think Forrest Gump could run this series better.

[Purist]

Yes and no. If it puts the series in the black, that's not a bad thing, especially if it encourages others to get involved, and keep the series solvent after the initial period.

Admittedly, a quick fix is most certainly not ideal. Then again, you have to consider the current business climate. Even if you do have "common sense" (which seems rather uncommon these days everywhere, not just in racing or business in general), and by some miracle make it to the top of an organization such as IndyCar, you still have a serious problem. That is, you have to do business with others, and how many of those executives are NOT going to be in this "modern" mould of short-termist, opportunistic economists? You may not be "one of those" yourself, but in order to do much of anything business-wise, you may/probably have to "make a deal with the Devil".

And it's NOT just the executives and economists to blame. People these days want instant return/gratification. If they don't get it, and especially if things look shaky in the market, there are plenty of people who simply panic, dump, and take the rest of us down with the market. Shareholders can be notoriously fickle, so it's no surprise that economists now push companies toward short-termism. Also, a great many people don't follow, much less understand, the technical aspects of most anything. They can't believe the system could possibly be as complicated as it is (a great many corporate executives in this group). And so, they simply have no understanding of why quick fixes don't work, and at the same time, they don't understand the long-term, real fixes, nor do they care to have the patience to see those long-term fixes through.

It reminds me of that ad where the guy is talking in a meeting, "When I went to business school, which when I say that, I mean when I read about business school, in a book...", and the conversation just goes down hill from there. And, of course, nobody in the ficticious boardroom questions his "logic".

[NaBUru38]

Now let's analyse Curt Cavin's recap:

Shocking news if any drops:
o- "For sure": St Pete, Barber, Long Beach, Sao Paulo, Indianapolis, Texas, Edmonton, Toronto and Fontana. (total 9)
o- "I'm sure": Iowa and Mid-Ohio.
o- "I’d expect in some form": Baltimore and Las Vegas.
o- "Probably": Kentucky. (total 14)

Very likely:
o- "Depends, ultimately expect": Sonoma, New Hampshire.
o- "90%": China, Porto Alegre. (total: 18)

Nearly or totally impossibly:
o- "No": Milwaukee, Phoenix, Homestead, Cleveland.
o- "Not until later": Michigan, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale.

I expect all 18 or perhaps 17, and no surprises.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Nearly or totally impossibly:
o- "No": Milwaukee

Out.

"In" - Road America.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

yet tony george threw away a long established and well funded and totally paid for irl race at the Gold Coast in Australia. How stupid can one be?

Except the Gold Coast wasn't fully paid

[DS"]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think Forrest Gump could run this series better.

That would be a series of epic proportions.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Out.

"In" - Road America.

Man I hope so!

[Tim Northcutt]

Welcome back, mountainstar.

I'll be the first one to send you an e-mail if there is an earthquake or a plane crash at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway so that you can come back here again and post your thoughts on it.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Except the Gold Coast wasn't fully paid

Uh, yes it was. That was about as sweet a deal as anyone could ever get. Full rack rate sanctioning fee and totally paid transportation and accommodation.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Uh, yes it was. That was about as sweet a deal as anyone could ever get. Full rack rate sanctioning fee and totally paid transportation and accommodation.

Not in 2008.

As I remember it, the QLD government had a certain amount of money to spend, it was up to the IRL & the teams to make up the difference.... until late in the piece Penske & Ganassi weren't even going to send their cars....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by racer69

Not in 2008.

As I remember it, the QLD government had a certain amount of money to spend, it was up to the IRL & the teams to make up the difference.... until late in the piece Penske & Ganassi weren't even going to send their cars....

Wasn't the 2008 event a non championship race, tacked to the end of the season?

[jondownunder]

Fontana confirmed for September 15, 2012.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...edway-in-2012/

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Uh, yes it was.

See Racer's post for the details.

The 2008 Gold Coast race was a non championship race but this didnt effect the promoters budget.

There was costs for the teams and that was the stumbling block, along with dates for the event in 2009 and beyond.

[NaBUru38]

New Hampshire, Sears Point, Baltimore, Fontana and Kentucky, in that order? That would kill truck drivers! I'd rather do:

August 12 - New Hampshire
August 26 - Road America (with American Le Mans Series)
Sept 2 - Baltimore
Sept 9 - Kentucky
Sept 15 - Fontana
Sept 23 - Sears Point (with World Touring Car Championship)

[mitchbr]

I heard from a reliable source today that China and a second Brazil race are pretty well set, and that Loudon will be out along with Milwaukee and Japan...No Road America, nothing else. Just trade out two great ovals for IndyCar in exchange for two far away street courses.

I've denied saying this for years, but if this ends up happening - and because of my source, it probably will - Indycar is turning into ChampCar. Too many decisions against what the fans have wanted. Wrong tracks for the series, bad cars, bad calls by race control, keeping TGBB, bad TV deal although that was George era, and plenty more. I'm sorry Mr. Bernard, I want to say I really like where IICS is heading, but if decisions like this continue to be made, AOWR will be run into the ground.

[Yannick]

Well, with the Gold Coast race at Surfers Paradise being out of the question, why does IndyCar not look at another possibility to open up the Australian market again whilst it still has got Ryan Briscoe, Will Power and Scott Dixon all in top rides (read: red cars):

the "Thunderdome" oval at Melbourne's Calder Park.

Adding this would also raise the balance of ovals vs road courses on the more difficult oval side of things as Randy Bernard strives for equality in that ratio.

It's just that the question about necessary upgrades to the track must be asked and solved if the IndyCar series actually makes its way to Australia again,
where there is certainly more fan interest than in China.

[Carsandmotorracing]

I'd love to see IndyCar down here in NZ. Great tracks can hold the race, not to mention the legion of Dixie fans flocking to the track!

[Purist]

Calder Park is currently in no condition to hold anything that approaches needing a Grade 2 circuit license.

Hampton Downs would be the only possibility in New Zealand, and that's only if the full, 3.8-km layout has been completed. Ruapuna, Teretonga, and Timaru are not up to standard. And as much as I like Pukekohe, it has some run-off issues that would make it really bad for big open-wheelers if something went wrong. Finally, Hamilton is Grade 3, I think, and there would have to be widening at a number of points, not to mention removing that chicane, in order to make the racing even decent there.

On the mainland, Philip Island is really THE good option. It and Eastern Creek should be up to code. However, apart from the front straight on around to Turn 2, Eastern Creek would simply be follow-the-leader for the Indy Cars for the rest of the lap. Adelaide and Surfers Paradise just won't do the trick, unless you can run the long versions of the circuits. And Melbourne is out so long as F1 is there.

A second race in Brazil doesn't really bother me, as I think it will be well supported, both financially, and by the fans. I'm also not entirely convinced Loudon is gone, since it's an SMI track. And I see no intractable reason why IndyCar wouldn't be seriously trying to get to Road America. I would think, for that one, it will be another case of doing the double with the ALMS.

Not much is set in stone yet, so I'm not closing my mind to the options out there that have been mentioned.

[Purist]

I wanted to separate this out from the other post, just to put this out there.

Over the last 20-25 years, there have been certain core events in Indy/Champ Car racing. Agree or disagree with a few items on this list, but I come to some 14 events that have been most central to this form of racing since the series' departure from under USAC, and a few date back to even before that.

Ovals:
Phoenix
Indianapolis
Milwaukee
Michigan
Loudon

Road Courses:
Portland
Mid Ohio
Road America
Laguna Seca

Temporary Circuits:
Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Vancouver
Surfers Paradise

I know Loudon hasn't had the tenure of some others but it was a very good event. It was another tie to flat ovals Indy Cars have run on for decades. And Nazareth is no longer around, so this is also a bit of a stand-in.

I accept, and often welcome, new venues; however, it would seem prudent to have a majority of the above on the calendar EVERY season. This season, the number was 6, and if Loudon is gone, along with Milwaukee, that's down to 4, unless some of the others come in.

[Purist]

Barber is April 1, 2012.

I wonder what will be going in to the late April gap if not Sao Paolo. That was Houston's slot prior to the merger.

[Yannick]

Purist, may I include Chicagoland in your list of ovals? I know it does not date back that long but it has proven to be a favourite with fans and sponsors alike. Last year, they scored the "most entrants aside of the Indy 500" (even if by now, this record has been outperformed).

Newton, Iowa, has turned into a great event by now as well.

However, the seeming lack of spectator interest at Milwaukee is bewildering.
And as long as Bruton Smith is in the boat, we will always see the series show up at Sonoma instead of Laguna where they should be.

Oh, and I'd also like to add Watkins Glen to your list of road courses.