2014 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 7-9 February (Merged)

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

If the OS GT drivers are not scared why would therer participation be at Risk?

Why would V8SC be scared, any manufacturereis more than welcome to enter, as long as they have a 5l v8 4 door car and they submit to the parity rules.

V8 Supercars is not class racing. the Bathurst 12 hour is. Its just another Class, but it will be a competitive one for outright honours.

there is no need for personal insults or comments

Fine. The "scared" comment just broke me up. I really don't think there would be a fear factor here, these guys are pros and race against each other in the same and in different classes and series all year round, so I can't see any apprehension by either drivers or manufacturers, if there was a supertaxi class added. They all thrive on competition, as long as it's an even playing field (BoP aside)
Do you really think that a V8SC would last the 12 hours? I don't think you can really use Mal Rose's ancient old Commodore as an example.
I just can't get my head around those things being in the same race as the thoroughbred GT cars, and to seriously answer your question.... GT cars with pro factory drivers would humiliate them in a 12 hour enduro. There's a reason why overseas teams have won convincingly at the B12 the last couple of years. They are better at endurance racing than the locals. They do it year in, year out, overseas.
But hey , if the race organizers wanted to turn the race into a farce by prostituting it out to attract the bogans through the gate, then I wouldn't be bothered. Luckily, I can't see that happening.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Bluesport, as pointed out but someone else. there were 6 or 7 international GT cars. That's along way from international acceptance, (how many were there last year) much of the international support actually came in the invitational classes

Whats your definition of international acceptance? 7 international GT cars out of 20 cars = about a 1/3rd. Not bad

The driver line ups, os teams and Radio Le Mans seem to suggest there is international acceptence and recognition of the event.

Its not Le Mans, Spa or Nurburgring but its now got a place on the map.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Fine. The "scared" comment just broke me up. I really don't think there would be a fear factor here, these guys are pros and race against each other in the same and in different classes and series all year round, so I can't see any apprehension by either drivers or manufacturers, if there was a supertaxi class added. They all thrive on competition, as long as it's an even playing field (BoP aside)
Do you really think that a V8SC would last the 12 hours? I don't think you can really use Mal Rose's ancient old Commodore as an example.
I just can't get my head around those things being in the same race as the thoroughbred GT cars, and to seriously answer your question.... GT cars with pro factory drivers would humiliate them in a 12 hour enduro. There's a reason why overseas teams have won convincingly at the B12 the last couple of years. They are better at endurance racing than the locals. They do it year in, year out, overseas.
But hey , if the race organizers wanted to turn the race into a farce by prostituting it out to attract the bogans through the gate, then I wouldn't be bothered. Luckily, I can't see that happening.

I dont really think they would be scared, just didnt see why it would affect there interest as its just another class, but a competitive one.

Why would a car that comfortably completes 6 hours not be able to complete 12 hours? (or 9 hours this year)

Point out that an Australian team won this year.

I dont get why it would be a farce, its just another class,
Why wouldnt you be bothered turning up, its just another Class, you still get to see the cars you want race, although maybe your scared of Bogans

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Whats your definition of international acceptance? 7 international GT cars out of 20 cars = about a 1/3rd. Not bad

The driver line ups, os teams and Radio Le Mans seem to suggest there is international acceptence and recognition of the event.

Its not Le Mans, Spa or Nurburgring but its now got a place on the map.

sorry 7 cars is not international acceptance, how did they go those 7 by the way

its an international toe in the water.

i can accept its the start of international acceptance, but lets see what the next two year hold before we start raving about international acceptance

[Reload]

Originally Posted by peckstar

sorry 7 cars is not international acceptance, how did they go those 7 by the way

its an international toe in the water.

i can accept its the start of international acceptance, but lets see what the next two year hold before we start raving about international acceptance

The race and event certainly were a success which is a lot more than you expected considering the first few pages of the 2013 event thread had you doubting as to whether the event would be on at all.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Reload

The race and event certainly were a success which is a lot more than you expected considering the first few pages of the 2013 event thread had you doubting as to whether the event would be on at all.

agreed it was a success. and after 2012 race i was concerned. Fortunately though they did two things that i (and others)also mentioned in the 2012 thread and that was patch things up with the Aust GT series and improve the invitational classes. They did both of these and that resulted in a big chunk of growth for 2013, more than the increase in international GT cars (although there were a lot of invitational international cars)

I still think we need a top ten shoot out though, if you watch the v8s, and remember it goes back well before the v8s Its a massive moment on the mountain. In the grandstand its the one moment where you cant borrow a spare seat because they are full and it creates excellent tv coverage and news soundbites.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I still think we need a top ten shoot out though, if you watch the v8s, and remember it goes back well before the v8s Its a massive moment on the mountain. In the grandstand its the one moment where you cant borrow a spare seat because they are full and it creates excellent tv coverage and news soundbites.

A very good idea

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I dont really think they would be scared, just didnt see why it would affect there interest as its just another class, but a competitive one.

Why would a car that comfortably completes 6 hours not be able to complete 12 hours? (or 9 hours this year)

Point out that an Australian team won this year.

I dont get why it would be a farce, its just another class,
Why wouldnt you be bothered turning up, its just another Class, you still get to see the cars you want race, although maybe your scared of Bogans

I seem to remember you bellyaching last year that the 12 hour thread shouldn't have been in the Aus Touring car section.
They are sports cars.....OK, with a few ring ins, but it's a mainly GT3 based field for outright. IMO, it should stay that way. There's always Wrestling if you want to watch a freak show. If you want to see the V8's race against the GT's, it ain't gonna happen. You can speculate all you like about who would win if.....
Why would a car that comfortably completes 6 hours not be able to complete 12 hours? (or 9 hours this year)
Six hours ain't 12 hours. You don't win an endurance race at Hour 1, 6, 9, 10 or 11. We will have to agree to disagree on this point, V8SC's haven't race proven themselves in anything longer than the 1000. Sure, they may go the distance, but in the sprint setup that they run, I don't see it happening, despite the BS palava that Messrs Crompton and Skaife sprout on about, around B1000 time. The Pro GT's would out-qualify them and outrace them if you go on the laptimes both cars are capable of around Bathurst in recent years. As Mr Lowndes has said on many ocassions, the V8's have the legs up Mountain straight and down Conrod, but (in his case) the Audi has a lot more speed over the top and down the hill. I believe not only in qualifying but in the race, again with slower class cars to negotiate, the GT's would leave them in their wake over the distance of the race. Fuel consumption would play a part as well. Then of course there is the crappy spec Dunlop tyres that the V8's are using.

Point out that an Australian team won this year. You've lost me there?

I dont get why it would be a farce, its just another class, Why wouldnt you be bothered turning up, its just another Class, you still get to see the cars you want race
Look.... you're probably right there . If it ever happened, I'd probably go just to see them get a good ol' fashioned arse kickin'

[bluesport]

No room for supercars, there's already fifty cars on the grid.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by bluesport

No room for supercars, there's already fifty cars on the grid.

True, waste of time even arguing about it.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

I seem to remember you bellyaching last year that the 12 hour thread shouldn't have been in the Aus Touring car section.
They are sports cars.....OK, with a few ring ins, but it's a mainly GT3 based field for outright. IMO, it should stay that way. There's always Wrestling if you want to watch a freak show. If you want to see the V8's race against the GT's, it ain't gonna happen. You can speculate all you like about who would win if.....
Why would a car that comfortably completes 6 hours not be able to complete 12 hours? (or 9 hours this year)
Six hours ain't 12 hours. You don't win an endurance race at Hour 1, 6, 9, 10 or 11. We will have to agree to disagree on this point, V8SC's haven't race proven themselves in anything longer than the 1000. Sure, they may go the distance, but in the sprint setup that they run, I don't see it happening, despite the BS palava that Messrs Crompton and Skaife sprout on about, around B1000 time. The Pro GT's would out-qualify them and outrace them if you go on the laptimes both cars are capable of around Bathurst in recent years. As Mr Lowndes has said on many ocassions, the V8's have the legs up Mountain straight and down Conrod, but (in his case) the Audi has a lot more speed over the top and down the hill. I believe not only in qualifying but in the race, again with slower class cars to negotiate, the GT's would leave them in their wake over the distance of the race. Fuel consumption would play a part as well. Then of course there is the crappy spec Dunlop tyres that the V8's are using.

Point out that an Australian team won this year. You've lost me there?

I dont get why it would be a farce, its just another class, Why wouldnt you be bothered turning up, its just another Class, you still get to see the cars you want race
Look.... you're probably right there . If it ever happened, I'd probably go just to see them get a good ol' fashioned arse kickin'

Last year, check out page 1 of this thread. It does belong there as you pointed out its a manily GT field now.

See you have it all wrong, you want them to compete for the win. But this is class racing, its all about winning your class. But statistically at about 2 seconds a lap slower , (on current tyres) they are about 10 minutes behind (not counting safety cars) which would put them about 4 or 5 laps behind would have given them a top 5 outright this year. there fuel consumption apperared to be similar (about every hour) and who says they have to use Dunlops, I see no reason why they wouldnt compete 12 hours, The cars are built for it, there just might be some tuning issues to deal with

The overseas comment was to you saying an Overseas team had won the last two years, but a Australian team won in 2013

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bluesport

No room for supercars, there's already fifty cars on the grid.

I wasnt aware 50 was the maximum. drop the classes who fail to provide a reasonable field and there is room for a v8 class, just one with ten cars, not three

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I wasnt aware 50 was the maximum. drop the classes who fail to provide a reasonable field and there is room for a v8 class, just one with ten cars, not three

But the race is still growing, I can envisage the organisers knocking back entries before long.

[peckstar]

maybe but lets just go back a few pages and put things in context

Rich 07 said they shouldnt be there and i asked why not? (he hasnt said yet)

I've just responded to the answers people have given. they easily meet the criteria given so far. without a doubt a good class addition to the race (for the open minded).

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

maybe but lets just go back a few pages and put things in context

Rich 07 said they shouldnt be there and i asked why not? (he hasnt said yet)

I've just responded to the answers people have given. they easily meet the criteria given so far. without a doubt a good class addition to the race (for the open minded).

But why have supercars? Ford could enter a Ford GT or Mustang GT3 and GM could enter a corvette or camaro, and it would be more interesting than watching the same old offerings that we see all the time.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bluesport

But why have supercars? Ford could enter a Ford GT or Mustang GT3 and GM could enter a corvette or camaro, and it would be more interesting than watching the same old offerings that we see all the time.

But Ford or GM are not going to though are they! Will it be more interesting? It will be novel, but that wears off after a year or two!

Why have v8 supercars, Why not? I asked the question first

They are there, they are ready to race, they will last the distance, they will provide a reasonable size field. they will be competitive. They provide a class of racing which is "apparently" important to the 12 hour format

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

The overseas comment was to you saying an Overseas team had won the last two years, but a Australian team won in 2013

Right, and good on Erebus, I was genuinely happy to see them take the win.
Do you think that they would have got there without those good Aussie boys, Schneider, Jager and Roloff on board?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Right, and good on Erebus, I was genuinely happy to see them take the win.
Do you think that they would have got there without those good Aussie boys, Schneider, Jager and Roloff on board?

its irrelevant though isnt it. Still an Australian team. and there cars dominated until an unfortunate late race SC incident

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

But Ford or GM are not going to though are they! Will it be more interesting? It will be novel, but that wears off after a year or two!

Why have v8 supercars, Why not? I asked the question first

They are there, they are ready to race, they will last the distance, they will provide a reasonable size field. they will be competitive. They provide a class of racing which is "apparently" important to the 12 hour format

There was a Ford GT entered but it was a late withdrawl, there was a corvette racing and in Europe I believe there is an 8.2L camaro racing........now that would be more interesting than a supercar at the mountain.

[peckstar]

depends if you are going to a car show or a race

[B24]

Last year I asked if the B24 would return to the mountain where the B12 evolved into the B24. The reply was 'not all the residents had access to and from the track which was stopping the return of the B24.
I spent most of this years race on Conrod straight chatting with some of the residents and the topic of 'access' came up. The answer being ' all residents will have full access to there homes during any event by the end of April '. He also said most people in Bathurst are very supportive of the B24 return.
Hopefully this will see the green light for the return of 24hr racing to the mountain.

Can the moderator please do something about the endless toxic banter that 'peckstar' provides? Its just not on.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by B24

Can the moderator please do something about the endless toxic banter that 'peckstar' provides? Its just not on.

As long as posts are within the forum rules there's no problem. If you think something is in breach there's a report button to use. My views about people discussing each other instead of the thread are well documented.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by B24

Last year I asked if the B24 would return to the mountain where the B12 evolved into the B24. The reply was 'not all the residents had access to and from the track which was stopping the return of the B24.
I spent most of this years race on Conrod straight chatting with some of the residents and the topic of 'access' came up. The answer being ' all residents will have full access to there homes during any event by the end of April '. He also said most people in Bathurst are very supportive of the B24 return.
Hopefully this will see the green light for the return of 24hr racing to the mountain.

Can the moderator please do something about the endless toxic banter that 'peckstar' provides? Its just not on.

Thats good news if the 24 hour comes back.

As for toxic Banter, thats a bit harsh, Its takes two to Tango, and you just attcked a poster. The discusion had not included any personal attacks up until then. It was also not a discusion i created.

[Samwhk]

To be honest, I don't see a problem with a V8SC class at the 12H. As Pecky says (and I don't agree with much he says), you could cap it at 10 entries, run pre-COTF cars, and change a few things on the cars to make it more reasonable that they'd last the distance. They wouldn't be as quick as the GT's, but they'd be interesting to watch compete with other cars than what we're used to seeing them run against.

[MarkInTheStands]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

To be honest, I don't see a problem with a V8SC class at the 12H. As Pecky says (and I don't agree with much he says), you could cap it at 10 entries, run pre-COTF cars, and change a few things on the cars to make it more reasonable that they'd last the distance. They wouldn't be as quick as the GT's, but they'd be interesting to watch compete with other cars than what we're used to seeing them run against.

Maybe even Development Series cars instead of Main game?