Women in motorsport (was F.Woman)

[spanner]

Am i the only one who think this is a bit strange. You get a bunch of women who have never held a race liscence or driven on a track, allow them to have, what 7 or 8 races? Then pitch them into the BTCC and expect them to survive! are they mad! surely all current drivers in the BTCC have years of experience.

[Audi R8R]

And that's where FW falls down...

The money invested by both Mazda and the sponsors, both the condom company and Privilege Insurance could have been better spent by finding one really talented femaledriver and getting them a seat in a good one-make or national championship, not pratting about on a reality tv show.
Won't do the winner any favours in the 'taking you seriously' honours. Especially within the other championships and teams and the racing media.

[ribbo]

Originally posted by spanner
surely all current drivers in the BTCC have years of experience.

or lots of sponsership money

good luck to the drivers i say and in reply to Mr Legge's comments, if that ITV letter is true then i can understand your a little chuffed off.

bring on Celebrity Formula Women, can you imagine driving schools Maureen on the track, would make ace telly.



Ribbo

[mcurtis26]

If the intention is to promote a female driver in the btcc, why not take someone like fiona leggate who is already looking quite promising in britcar? I am all for promoting diversity in the sport, but if the formula woman winner is thrown straight into the btcc and struggles, it is only likely to harm both the standing of formula woman and limit further chances for female drivers.

[StephenRae]

I would guess all associated with F Woman, if they were to read this debate will be rubbing their hands with glee, such enterprises surely thrive on controversy.
Realistically, having seen the first two 'races' their is precious little else to look forward to.

[garcon]

I would think they'll improve as they get more races under their belts. Alot of them are very inexperienced, particularly when it comes to sharing the circuit with other cars! The disparity in performance may increase too, as the few with any real promise steadily improve, and those at the back lose whatever confidence they had.

One thing I've just thought of that may have helped - why not keep 20 of them, and each race have 20 qualifying for 16 grid slots?

Ultimately I think a few may have missed the point slightly as to FW's concept. This is not about financing a realistic tin top opportunity for a female club racer who can't raise the funds herself. It's about the process of whittling down 10,000 hopeful novices, giving them a race series and then (hopefully) offering the overall winner a chance to progress. I agree, a BTCC drive is probably somewhat unrealistic given the levels of experience.

[ss_collins]

steven rae hit the nail on the head I think

[Scootch]

Originally posted by garcon
I would think they'll improve as they get more races under their belts.

But the final round is in just over a week, after that no more races?

[garcon]

I'm watching in tv time, not real time!

[strider]

The whole thing is a catalogue of bad decisions, which it would be boring to list here, but as an example, why have only one race at Cadwell Park, the home of Formula Woman, rather than two as elsewhere?

And I'm totally unconvinced that there will be a BTCC drive for the winner. I'll have another look at the prog, which I taped, but I reckon VBH just got carried away in her intro and was trying to provide a link to the BTCC meeting where she was at the time.

I reckon all we're seeing is the tip of the iceberg, which brings to mind thoughts of the Titanic...

[spanner]

Just been on autotrader.co.uk and they were advertising a webchat with two of the contestants, not sure when it was though. Though reading the blurb it implied that the final number competing in the series where chosen by a public vote!

[Artie]

Its interesting to see everyones` opinions on this thread, many of which are fairly frustrating to read having been involved with FW from the start. Too many of you are drawing you own comclusions and offering damning remarks to those involved.

There are too to list but for example, when we applied for this competition we had absolutely no idea it was anything other than a very genuine concept to identify a handful of the most talented drivers in the uk and put them out to compete. We knew it was to be filmed but we assumed it was in the form of a serious documentary.
It was only when ITV got involved that we discovered the nature of the programme.

So no, we did not queue up like Pop Idol anticipating ridicule infront of the nation.

In reference to my own ordeal with FW, I posted this email to Matt James of Motorsport News earlier today in response to his article claiming, as VBH did that I lied about my application:
I hope this sets the record straight for some of you:

Dear Matt,

Having read your article "An alternative take on Racing" in MN today I would like to suggest that perhaps before publishing details taken from a "Reality TV ` show you should check that the script was in fact the truth. By reiterating points made by VBH you are compounding damage already done to those of us who have been portrayed in a detremental and untruthful way.

I was the one shown to have "lied" about my licence:

The fact is that I did not, I clearly stated on my application that I had competed in a Speed Hillclimb at Wiscombe.

For months I heard nothing from FW and so assumed my application had been refused.

However, a further few months later during conversations between Peter Chambers (aka Peter Chambers Motor Racing Ltd, my husband), and Philip Glew, Peter enquired about my application wondering if had been rejected because of the situation regarding the licence, Philip said that he would follow it up and see what he could do, I later had notification that I had been selected for an assesment day at Pembrey.

It wasnt until two days prior to the final week of eliminations, having succesfully achieved the top 50, that Graeme Glew contacted informing me that I had been dropped from the competition because I held a licence. ( FW having had my application for 10 months)

Graeme then decided that if we could produce any licences and prove that they are unsigned that I was back in the running. Peter and I bought the 2 licences to Cadwell (as shown on television) and submitted them as proof of them not ever being signed and therefore unused.

On Sunday evening at Cadwell this was accepted and I was assured that I was back in the competition.

The public eviction was an utter shock and one obviously used and preconcieved for television purposes.

I therefore, suggest that before printing such incorrect and damaging information that you should have contacted either Peter or myself beforehand. Your words as are VBHs are slander.

I look forward to hearing your remarks on this.

Amy Chambers

I have no doubt that this creates good TV for you all but you must remember that behind the scenes there have been and will continue to be genuine women being treated in an exploitive, destructive manner for your entertainment and the organisers financial gain.

[TimD]

Amy, what you've said is pretty much what I've extrapolated from reading your remarks before the broadcast and then subsequently watching the programme. It shows up not only the curious judgement call of filming, let alone keeping in the show, your eviction, but also the curiously arbitrary nature of the selection procedure.

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression I get is that a candidate could have karted, autograssed and autotested to her heart's desire from childhood and been eligible for the selection process, but that someone in your position who had successfully applied for a MSA licence but not used it for whatever reason was deemed no longer a novice for the purposes of the programme.

All in all, a very rum deal, and once again emphasises how this whole thing ultimately was ultimately put together for "the show" and not for the stated aim of placing more women in the top flight of motor racing.

I'm just saddened that so many peoples' hopes were raised by the organisers. I'm not in any way saying anything was fixed, but this sure isn't what was on the tin when FW was first mooted.

[Artie]

Absolutely Tim D, one of the girls who made it through to the very last day of the eliminations camp has raced bukes for years so held an ACU Licence, which of course gives her extensive experience on most national race circuits, racing conditions, racing line etc etc. The "Trackday Queen" must spent hundreds of hours on the track, more so than most are able to test whilst competing for a championship! Lorraine Pinner has karting experience...etc etc.!!

Like I said previously, had we known the intention was to create a novelty tv show then I think the number of girls who initially applied would have been far far less than 10,000.

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by Artie
I have no doubt that this creates good TV for you all but you must remember that behind the scenes there have been and will continue to be genuine women being treated in an exploitive, destructive manner for your entertainment and the organisers financial gain.

I'm surprised that you are surprised...it sounds like you used a bit of inside information to 'get back in'...I wouldn't suggest they let you in just to throw you out in front of the camera...but some would.

[spider]

I hadn't been paying any attention to FW, besides a quick read-up on the results in Autosport, and it sounds all a bit strange? I can see that maybe this was the only way they could gain TV coverage, and the only way to secure Mazda backing et al, but it's not a proper racing series from the sound of it. But, it's causing a stir and publicity, and at the end of the day it's creating celebrities out of the drivers, which could potentially help the faster drivers when they look for sponsorship if they look to progress out of the series? Which, had it just been JUST a racing category, might not have been possible.

These drivers should be looking for coverage in HEAT etc, to help raise their profile. Ok, it's not PURE racing, but it's a springboard, even though it sounds slightly different to most peoples original ideas on what the series was all about...?

[Webber45]

I wonder why some of them got involved - as suggested a springboard - possibly to journalism or to being on TV

[mark_l]

Formula Women appears to be the Big Brother of motorsport, all involved are in it for their 15 minutes of fame and then back to oblivion at the end of the season.

It's car crash TV at its worst, but you cant help but rubberneck!

[redshoes]

Artie, I wasn't saying that you queued up Pop Idol-style. The point I was trying to illustrate is that despite the seemingly poor treatment some competitors got don't be surprised if it's just as fully subscribed next year. If the amount of reaction here translates into viewing figures then it's hard to see why it won't run again.

I'm a bit surprised at you comment about not knowing the nature of the programme until ITV got involved. Sure ITV weren't confirmed until Jan this year but from it's original launch in Jan 2003 it was made clear that this was going to be a reality-style TV show.

If the situation was really as bad as you claim then I'm surprised you were so upset at being kicked out. Surely once you realised the nature of the programme you could have just walked away.

[Whizz]

Um, I would certainly disagree the comments made by Mark about entrants only wanting TV fame. I was part of FW, and made the reserves, and have been trying to get into motorsport long before I heard about FW. What motivated me was a free drive (money is what is holding me back, as with so many of us) and I have slogged my guts out especially in the last 12 months unconnected with FW. I have done 4 races now unconnected with FW and have another 2 lined up al in single seaters. Some people may have wanted fame but FW for me was about experience, and a free drive, as well as possible publicity to launch a career.

You only have to look at this forum to find that many women who entered are serious about racing and didn't enter purely for the TV aspect.

[ss_collins]

I have had Dereks stuff verified, so below are the post that were removed barring two that should remain confidential for the time being.

I thought you would be interested in the actual verbatim transcript of the meeting showing Katherine, glew and harvey with some voice overs by VBH

The filming prior to the meeting showed the following clip.

Clip of Katherine in car instructing Jessica Eaves (Dan Eaves sister I am led to believe)

The clip shows the car sliding over wet grass on its way towards a tyre barrier.

This is followed by an interview with Jessica Eaves and this is what the programme says.

Jessica

“ went for a bit of a flying lesson , hit park and we were trying to skid and then control it, went round and floored it as I went round it skidded, hit the grass and as soon as it hit the grass it went absolutely flying, then I hit the wall of tyres so I hit into them, there are a few little bumps on the car”

This is then followed by an interview with Katherine.

Katherine

“it was going to happen to somebody to be honest and we said that at the beginning of the day, it was just unlucky, just a bit panicky”

We then get a voice over from VBH

VBH

“Katherine Legges careless attitude to Jessicas spin was the final straw for tim and graeme”

The clip now is of the meeting between Katherine, glew and harvey

glew

“we want to talk about Jessica, we have got some footage that we want you to have a look at”

VBH

“Katherine was already in hot water for her harsh manner with the women and her flippant attitude to the job”

repeat clip of the car sliding across the grass

VBH

“now there had been a potentially dangerous impact leaving a damaged car”

glew

“At not one time did you say, up from the hairpin to park, watch it its slippery”

Clip then shows Katherine driving out of the pit lane and then later Jessica having a spin in an incident she had prior to the off into the tyres.

harvey

“Then on your very first lap out of the pit you stick it in the gravel er grass
which you just got out of then you go round and its jokey, jokey jokey jokey, she (Jessica) gets in the car, it starts to sleet and you don’t account for the conditions, she spins the first time you go on to the corner you are told to be more aggressive at, its sleeting even more and she sticks it in the barrier.
That isn’t the sort of instructing that we want”.

glew

I think that it would be better if you didn’t continue with this week because there are to many problems being caused and I think that its best you call it a day”


harvey

“that’s leave it at that then”



Derek Legge

“ I DON’T THINK SO”

[ss_collins]

I'll let derek give you his opinion on the situation -

[kickstart]

There are a number of other respectable competitions for those ladies who did not get selected for FW. Aintree racing (Malcolm Barfoot) runs a decent one with the prize being racing in FF. Exchange and Mart run their well known championship.

[ss_collins]

get £500 and rent a vee - I'm sure Alan Harding would run a Formula Vee Woman thingy

[Whizz]

Get £500... just like that? ;-)