Merger talks again? - Page 6

JohnSSC · 21 Apr 2006, 09:58 (Ref:1590662)

To answer both posts above, I agree with paul-collins in that "tradition" i s huge here. I doubt that this or even later generations of the Hulman family will sell for that reason alone.

Seoigh, IMS is not like any other track in the country, perhaps the world. It plays host to F1, NASCAR and of course the 500 (sanctioning body not nearly as important as this is THE race in the US!). The facility, from size/quality of the grandstands to the paddock to the museum to the golf course plus parking, etc make thi one very valuable property. The revenues generated are enormous.

By saying the France family does not have coin is no slam to them. I am just saying that IMS is one giant revenue-generator all by itself. No offense, but people tend to oversimplify the economics surrounding this facility and those economics make any asking price an astronomical proposition indeed.

mountainstar · 21 Apr 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1590877)

The indy 500 used to be a big tradition, but looking at the numbers it's not what it used to be. Getting tickets for the 500 was like getting tickets for the super bowl, now you can buy blocks of hundreds of tickets for the race. It used to be a month of may with some huge crowds during qualifying, no more. As the years go on, it becomes less and less of a tradition and less and less of an interest to the public.

indycool · 21 Apr 2006, 13:22 (Ref:1590882)

Then why did it regain two TV Nielsen rating points in '05, mountainstar?

racerkeke · 21 Apr 2006, 13:29 (Ref:1590889)

Two words, Indycool: Danica Patrick. Half of those two points tuned in to see if she'd actually do something with her talent and the other half tuned in to see her crash.

keke

indycool · 21 Apr 2006, 13:37 (Ref:1590896)

Oh. Could it be that they tuned into it to see what Danica Patrick would do in the Indianapolis 500? They didn't tune in much to see her finish fourth at Motegi.

luke · 21 Apr 2006, 15:00 (Ref:1590930)

Obviously they wanted to see the 4th place winner.

paul-collins · 21 Apr 2006, 15:09 (Ref:1590936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerkeke

Two words, Indycool: Danica Patrick. Half of those two points tuned in to see if she'd actually do something with her talent and the other half tuned in to see her crash.

...and both were rewarded.

Snips1 · 21 Apr 2006, 15:32 (Ref:1590953)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The indy 500 used to be a big tradition, but looking at the numbers it's not what it used to be. Getting tickets for the 500 was like getting tickets for the super bowl, now you can buy blocks of hundreds of tickets for the race. It used to be a month of may with some huge crowds during qualifying, no more. As the years go on, it becomes less and less of a tradition and less and less of an interest to the public.

Sure and when KK and Tracy come back in will all be great

mountainstar · 21 Apr 2006, 22:10 (Ref:1591265)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snips1

Sure and when KK and Tracy come back in will all be great

It'll never be the same again. The damage has been done.

luke · 21 Apr 2006, 22:20 (Ref:1591278)

These are only rumors so take it with what you want, but apparently Tony George isn't agreeing with certain terms with Kevin Kaulkoven. This is according to insiders from Indianapolis. Apparently he wants Champ Car to fold in the IRL and wishes to have still complete control. Also apparently the sponsers and co are angry, I certainly hope this isn't true.

The Snout · 22 Apr 2006, 00:31 (Ref:1591397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

These are only rumors so take it with what you want, but apparently Tony George isn't agreeing with certain terms with Kevin Kaulkoven. This is according to insiders from Indianapolis. Apparently he wants Champ Car to fold in the IRL and wishes to have still complete control. Also apparently the sponsers and co are angry, I certainly hope this isn't true.

No one ever just sits down for a merger and all agree straight away, it's give and take.

Tony has expectations, KK & GF have expectations. So the fact that they don't agree on things doesn't really worry me. Just IMO I don't believe Tony's terms and KK & GF's terms will ever get close enough for a merger to be possible.

Seoigh · 22 Apr 2006, 03:03 (Ref:1591448)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

To answer both posts above, I agree with paul-collins in that "tradition" i s huge here. I doubt that this or even later generations of the Hulman family will sell for that reason alone.

Seoigh, IMS is not like any other track in the country, perhaps the world. It plays host to F1, NASCAR and of course the 500 (sanctioning body not nearly as important as this is THE race in the US!). The facility, from size/quality of the grandstands to the paddock to the museum to the golf course plus parking, etc make thi one very valuable property. The revenues generated are enormous.

By saying the France family does not have coin is no slam to them. I am just saying that IMS is one giant revenue-generator all by itself. No offense, but people tend to oversimplify the economics surrounding this facility and those economics make any asking price an astronomical proposition indeed.

I'm not denigrating the value of IMS, or the 500...but it's not the event it was when my Dad took me there in the 60's...and the '05 F1 race made that event essentially worthless from a future revenue standpoint...though that may change in a few years...I think all agree a merger makes a very compelling case for everyone.

paul-collins · 23 Apr 2006, 02:49 (Ref:1592367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

Tell you what is floating around Indy. The DP-01 is primarily a road course car within a spec price range and CC is pulling out of ovals with only Milwaukee on the schedule this year and that contract up after this year. Why would CC build a car that leans to ovals? I'll talk to some engineers -- again -- but one told me already that the high nose on the thing would spear a cockpit in a high-speed oval crash against a sideways car or possibly cause it to flip on frontal contact. There's a start.

From the initial press release:

Quote:

The new design also features safety innovations that include upgrades to the head surround and seat back areas as well as increased leg padding. The design also incorporates a collapsible steering column, new side intrusion panels and a two-stage nose crush and a rear crash structure for oval events.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...07&FS=CHAMPCAR

Seems to me the DP01 ought to be worthy of consideration, anyway.

indycool · 23 Apr 2006, 03:12 (Ref:1592375)

paul, I can't link it, but some of that is already in place in IRL cars. Rear crash structure has been developed on IRL cars from attenuators, to collapsible gearboxes, to etc. And that's not only for oval tracks. If you recall just recently, there was a back injury at Long Beach in the new Swift Atlantic chassis.

The upgrades to seat back padding and the cockpit have been made through the years in the IRL chassis independent of the Lolas CC have been using. Side intrusion panels have been beefed up in IRL cars with changes to the sidepods.

John Melvin, the safety expert in many forms of auto racing, said that a different seat position might negate back injuries but INCREASE neck injuries and judges it a tradeoff.

This is, IMO, not all new technology, but learned from development of safety features for IRL cars, maybe expanded, but in large measure already in place.

Fish_Flake · 23 Apr 2006, 06:09 (Ref:1592457)

For anyone who wants a reminder of how things used to be, and may be again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO05KVS53uo&search=Road%20America]1994 Texaco-Havoline 200

Penske's three amigos. Villeneuve's first win. A Road America with fans packing the hillsides. Live it up.

luke · 23 Apr 2006, 10:29 (Ref:1592613)

Yep I've downloaded all those races from the '90s from Rapidshare that the guy uploads from his video collection. I was going to link the online viewing as well but I did this before and it was against forum rules as it could be illegal so what out Fish_Flake...

Seoigh · 23 Apr 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1592651)

Thank You!

Snips1 · 23 Apr 2006, 11:37 (Ref:1592663)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

These are only rumors so take it with what you want, but apparently Tony George isn't agreeing with certain terms with Kevin Kaulkoven. This is according to insiders from Indianapolis. Apparently he wants Champ Car to fold in the IRL and wishes to have still complete control. Also apparently the sponsers and co are angry, I certainly hope this isn't true.

Other rumors say that KK only wants 4 ovasl on the new schedule and wants the IRL to merge with CC plus having full control.......

indycool · 24 Apr 2006, 10:13 (Ref:1593632)

Well, Snips, if that's true, is there a reason for TG to say "no?"

D.R.T. · 24 Apr 2006, 10:40 (Ref:1593642)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snips1

Other rumors say that KK only wants 4 ovasl on the new schedule and wants the IRL to merge with CC plus having full control.......

I find that pretty unlikely.

luke · 24 Apr 2006, 15:13 (Ref:1593816)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

Well, Snips, if that's true, is there a reason for TG to say "no?"

There isn't as KK isn't like that and both wouldn't offer that bad a deal to the other side. However if one is true I think the one that Tony would want control would be more likely based on past events.

indycool · 24 Apr 2006, 15:18 (Ref:1593820)

luke, it takes two to tango. KK and TG either make music or they don't. But if they don't, past practice indicates that fans of either the IRL or CC will blame the other's leader for the failure when we may never really know what the sticking points are to realistically judge them for ourselves.

luke · 24 Apr 2006, 17:24 (Ref:1593936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

luke, it takes two to tango. KK and TG either make music or they don't. But if they don't, past practice indicates that fans of either the IRL or CC will blame the other's leader for the failure when we may never really know what the sticking points are to realistically judge them for ourselves.

Did you not read my post?

Anyways, here is some info on the current TV deals and where it stands:

Quote:

The man who negotiated the Indy Racing League's television package says there are provisions in the deal for a unified open-wheel series.

Buddy McAtee, the vice president and executive producer for IMS Productions, tells the Indianapolis Star that ABC and ESPN would have the right of first refusal to air races if and when a merger takes place.

indycool · 24 Apr 2006, 18:04 (Ref:1593981)

Yes, I read your post. And hinted at TG already being the "fall guy." That's why I said we really don't know what either would be the "fall guy" for and probably won't hear all the dynamics of it, but fans of both series will be blaming the opposite's leader, anyway.

luke · 24 Apr 2006, 18:33 (Ref:1594004)

Well I didn't give the full link to the article at TSN!

Here it is:

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?id=163409

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