"Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe"

[Robert Ryan]

I think the undeniable consensus here is that V8's

Are people on the this Forum representating the bulk of the fans opinions on V8Supercar, logically no. Bit like a phone survey done by a TV station, not a very reliable indicator.

[peckstar]

lot of people on this forum, seem to have no onterest in motorsport except for pusing their own borrow, whic more often than not seems to be "i hate cams" or i hate V8SA or some other issue. i used to do that in promary school. Now i just hate Greg murphy and HRT (and maybe paul morris)

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

DRT that is illogical..why have they got to where they are?

How is it illogical Robert ?

The biggest v8's have going for them is the Ford Vs Holden thing. I would be interested to see how many people at v8 rounds are ' motorsport' fans and are Holden or Fords fans etc.

It would be illogical to assume that racing has built up this category.

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Good management doesnt get record crowds through the gate.

Creative accounting does Monaro. Remember Oran Park last year, well untill they got caught.

[Robert Ryan]

It would be illogical to assume that racing has built up this category.

In the words of a very famous politician "Please explain" If it is a racing category, how cannot it not have built it up?

[Robert Ryan]

[Creative accounting does Monaro. Remember Oran Park last year, well untill they got caught.

The terms of reference was the Clipsal 500 at Adelaide.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

In the words of a very famous politician "Please explain" If it is a racing category, how cannot it not have built it up?

It is a motorsport category. Robert you are getting caught on specifics here.

On track racing and passing is not in the strenghts column of v8s analysis. The move to reverse grids is a clear indicator of this.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

The terms of reference was the Clipsal 500 at Adelaide.

If its done for one event, cant it be argued that it could be done for another.

[Rombles1]

What would you do to the V8's to facilitate this "on track racing and passing?"

[Robert Ryan]

[If its done for one event, cant it be argued that it could be done for another

No if that event is the CLIPSAL. This is not the Bathurst 24hr , PROCAR generally and Super Touring in Australia where it was obvious a "man and a dog" made up the "crowd".

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

What would you do to the V8's to facilitate this "on track racing and passing?"

Thats a good question and one I do not have an answer for. The current trend of v8s racing is down to the introduction of project blueprint. With cars built so close to each other, cars struggle for advantages to overtake (apart from the kamakazi after a Safety car). If a control floor plan comes to existance (lets hope not) than the racing will become even for processional, they will qualify close but thats aboot it.

[Robert Ryan]

Thats a good question and one I do not have an answer for

OK, so how to they do it, in your view in other types of racing?

[storyline]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

What would you do to the V8's to facilitate this "on track racing and passing?"

Whilst Project Blueprint is still in operation, for the cars there isn't much you can do. How long will it be before the engines are also 'blueprinted'?

But if officialdom stopped 'stopping the racing' by handing out penalties everytime someoen gets turned around and allowed the drivers to actuall race each other - then maybe there would be some passing.

Yes - I know - there will be some deliberate 'turnarounds' and I wouldn't suggest not penalising the driver who tries to barge his way through at every opportunit, but the drivers HAVE to have the muzzles taken off them if they want genuine racing.

Or allow a lot more freedom on the cars (and, yes, if necessary, with greatly expanded budgets to cover this).

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

OK, so how to they do it, in your view in other types of racing?

The cars have the ability to overtake each other and as Storyline pointed out, officials encourage overtaking in many other categories.

[monaroCountry]

But if officialdom stopped 'stopping the racing' by handing out penalties everytime someoen gets turned around and allowed the drivers to actuall race each other - then maybe there would be some passing.

In my view the V8S officials promote CLEAN passing. Theres nothing worse for a team, official, driver and for a supporter than to see some idi0t driver punting everyone off left right and centre. Ive seen this type of racing in many other categories and frankly ill never support these type of free for all passing manuvers.

[Robert Ryan]

The cars have the ability to overtake each other and as Storyline pointed out, officials encourage overtaking in many other categories.

DRT, Ok..but the question was HOW would do they do it, What do they need to do to achieve this?

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The cars have the ability to overtake each other and as Storyline pointed out, officials encourage overtaking in many other categories.

That's what the reverse grids are for?

Adding a staggered start to hammer home the backmarkers advantage would make for excitement!

[Robert Ryan]

That's what the reverse grids are for?

DRT has said there are better ways, that other catergories do this. All is needed is an explanation how this is done.

[D.R.T.]

Thanks Robert.

Yes, reverse grids is a cop out and a cheap (not for the teams) attempt to solve the issue that the current cars struggle to overtake.

To achieve better racing, do not move to control parts, common floor plans, project blue this that or the other. By making cars exactly the same, you find processional racing.

Allow room for the cars to be different, throw in Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW and the like all with their own strenghts. Allow for competition, do not try to make everything the same.

[Robert Ryan]

Allow room for the cars to be different, throw in Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW and the like all with their own strenghts. Allow for competition, do not try to make everything the same.

Outside of one make dominating the racing so it becomes boring, yes a good idea..not. Have you any other refinement that actually produces good racing.

[storyline]

One make domination can still be controlled without resorting to silhoette cars (which is really where they are heading right now).

DRT correctly states that control restrictions produce racing that well, isn;t racing - it becomes processional simply because no one has that extra few horsepower together with different handling or braking charteristics to be able to out psyche or out drive someone else.

[Robert Ryan]

DRT correctly states that control restrictions produce racing that well, isn;t racing - it becomes processional simply because no one has that extra few horsepower together with different handling or braking charteristics to be able to out psyche or out drive someone else.

Must be not V8Supercars, because there is a lot of passing.As this quote suggests:

As I sit and watch the awesome spectacle of the V8 supercars on SPEED,
It occurs to me that it would be awesome (and very feasible) to send a few of our NASCAR or open wheel stars down under during the winter months to take a stab at Australia's biggest racing series.

[Robert Ryan]

One make domination can still be controlled without resorting to silhoette cars (which is really where they are heading right now).

Storyline, how can that be achieved?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Must be not V8Supercars, because there is a lot of passing.As this quote suggests:

Robert when the category manager is implementing Reverse Grids and other nonense, I am not sure that one post from a disallusioned American (or Australian on the Speed boards) holds much credit.

[Robert Ryan]

Robert when the category manager is implementing Reverse Grids and other nonense, I am not sure that one post from a disallusioned American (or Australian on the Speed boards) holds much credit.

Why? does yours have any more weight? Also Storyline has agreed that would be domination by a make or model in the type of rules you suggested. He hinted at ways of overcoming that, can you elaborate as you first suggested this format as the preferred option for Touring Car racing.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Why? does yours have any more weight?

No but when I can show that Category Management is seeking ways to fix the racing, is that not evidence to suggest that the racing is not up to standard ?

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Also Storyline has agreed that would be domination by a make or model in the type of rules you suggested. He hinted at ways of overcoming that, can you elaborate as you first suggested this format as the preferred option for Touring Car racing.

Without putting words in Storylines mouth, I dont think he said there would be domination by a make, but there would be potential for that to occur as there is in any sport. However the other option is processional racing (through control cars) I dont see how it has an advantage.

Ways of overcoming domination, well its competiton isnt it. Go out and try to beat them next weekend.

I am not saying let in four wheel drive cars, or something that like but there has to be a better alternative than having all the cars being identical.