|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
25 Apr 2018, 15:51 (Ref:3817347) | #1476 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,834
|
IMO, either the ACO are stacking the deck in favor of Toyota (which IMO does no one any good right now) or Toyota weren't sandbagging at the Prologue and their pace within prescribed EOT is real.
Either way, if things look messed up at Spa, the ACO will probably change things again going into and out of LM. |
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 16:48 (Ref:3817355) | #1477 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
Looks like the ACO know something we don't, because the non-hybrid cars have a lower fuel flow for Spa now http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...t-adjustments/.
I think people are forgetting that the TS050 is well-known to the team, so they're going to be getting the most out of their car of these teams. The others don't have cars they've been running for a whole season. Even the Kolles has brand new components to it and it only ran 3 races last year. That's why I brought up the lap times from the prologue. There's more to come from the private team's cars as they learn the car. On top of that they aren't limited to a set body kit like Toyota is. They can add to it and change things up, Toyota are stuck with what they have. |
|
|
25 Apr 2018, 17:01 (Ref:3817357) | #1478 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,010
|
Quote:
http://theracingline.net/2018/race-c...1-whats-story/ https://drracing.wordpress.com/2018/...ats-the-story/ Turns out, Andrea was right...again. |
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3817359) | #1479 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,834
|
I hope that the changes won't harm the ability for private teams to race against Toyota. It does though seem to be aimed at taking a second or so off the pace of the private cars around a normal sized track.
|
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 17:23 (Ref:3817360) | #1480 | |
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 201
|
Energy per lap - 125(without boost) vs 210 KJ
Fuel flow 80 vs 110 kg/h Petrol/stint - 35.1 vs 47.1 (was 54) We have ca. 500-550 hp vs ca. 650-700 hp of continous power into 878/833 kgs of weight I think when Toyota(Vasselon) said it is quite a challenge he was not only PRing. Ok, so they have hybrid boost but still it can be tough ask when you have the boost for limited time + lower top speed so when you want to overtake and the stake is high + there is a long straight on some well known circuit you can have quite a big problem. In Le Mans nonhybrids will be probably more competitive then anywhere else so I think that Toyota can ask for some break as some of the other P1s are not even close to their full potential. You can say what you want but Toyota are spending a whole lot more than the others so it is not to much if you do not want to be slower. Toyota will "deliver" at LM anyway and give them big chance so they should just shut up. If there was Porsche instead of Toyota left in WEC, there would be not 8 but maybe 2,3 privateers' cars, let's face it. |
|
|
25 Apr 2018, 17:45 (Ref:3817365) | #1481 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
Quote:
|
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 18:07 (Ref:3817373) | #1482 | |
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 201
|
I meant the privateers should shut up.
I hope also rest of the post gives some reasons why. |
|
|
25 Apr 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3817381) | #1483 | |
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 160
|
How does the new EoT compare with the one used last year at Le Mans ? John Dagys only gives a % comparison which doesn't mean that much, and I don't know how to find former "bulletins".
|
|
|
25 Apr 2018, 19:04 (Ref:3817390) | #1484 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 19:34 (Ref:3817398) | #1485 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,834
|
Hopefully this will be spot on, unless Toyota were sandbagging. I don't think that both sides would be above playing political games right now if it suited them.
Of course, to us outsiders, that's why things look really screwy when TMG were allowed 8 hours of running outside of EOT. Namely, how far off the prescribed mark were they during that period to gain 4-6 seconds off what they ran within EOT limits? |
||
|
25 Apr 2018, 20:31 (Ref:3817407) | #1486 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,270
|
Porsche gained 12 seconds around a similar time length of lap at Spa with the 919 Evo, and they said they'd increased the maximum power output by about 250bhp. Wouldn't be surprised if Toyota did something very similar with their power unit (and the rest of the difference from 4 to 12 seconds is accounted for by tires, weight saving and insane aero).
|
||
__________________
When in doubt? C4. |
25 Apr 2018, 21:12 (Ref:3817418) | #1487 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
I'm sure Toyota had a good amount of time to be had by doing a qualifying run, but not 5 seconds on a lap at Paul Ricard. Imo, that came from the hybrid being let loose without the 'mj per lap' restriction. So they ran all the boost they wanted to because it was to test their new cooling. But I don't think 1:38's and 1:39's are as fast as they could go within the rules. If they ran a qualifying lap, I would guess a 1:36 is a good time.
Onto Spa, last year they set a lmp1 lap record with the LM kit in qualifyig with a 1:53.658. Let's see if the private teams can touch the 1:53's in qualifying like Porsche and Toyota both did. |
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 06:49 (Ref:3817450) | #1488 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 614
|
IMO, it's the right direction, leave the power (fuel flow) of privateers where it is and cut them some fuel allocation per lap, this way you minimise the potential accidents where hybrids have to coast and privateers would be still on full power.
On a second thought, the right direction would be to give Toyota more fuel per lap, so they wouldn't have to coast, but that is another story. |
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 08:18 (Ref:3817464) | #1489 | |
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Negative impacts in comparison to Spa 2017 are much greater for the non-hybrids
2017 https://www.fia.com/file/56510/download?token=jo7PwEKE 2018 https://www.fia.com/file/67510/download?token=P8BfbyFW NON-HYBRID Weight: No change Petrol Energy: -10,2 mj/lap Petrol Flow: -5 kg/h Petrol Per Stint: -6,1 kg Fuel Restrictor: -5,70 mm HYBRID: Weight: No change Petrol Energy: No change Petrol Flow: -0,2 kg/h Petrol Per Stint: -9 kg Fuel Restrictor: -2,05 mm |
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 14:36 (Ref:3817515) | #1490 | |
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 160
|
OK so the privateers are to be "slower" than last year, on paper at least. Meanwhile, the Toyota stays the same. And they do that after a test where you don't know who tested what in terms of tires, fuel filling, engine modes etc...
Simulations made on last year's EoT gave the privateers a 1'55 per lap at Spa, Toyota was already at least 1.5" faster. Now that the privateers are slower over the course of a stint, what can you expect other than a Toyota lonely show at the front ? |
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3817516) | #1491 | ||
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Quote:
The somewhat saving grace will be the inter-nonhybrid order, and their reliability, but obviously the big public isn't going to be particularly interested in that. For LM however... even if/when there are further EoT changes and if Toyota storms to the pole by 5 seconds, all bets are off for the race given Toyota's awful history. That will be one of the most unpredictable races for the last decade, I reckon. Last edited by Deleted; 26 Apr 2018 at 15:09. |
||
|
26 Apr 2018, 16:03 (Ref:3817525) | #1492 | |
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
https://www.fiawec.com/assets/fileup...5a6530fad8.pdf
The race will end 1 hour earlier in the evening than in the past, so less sunset running. What's the "Open Running Session" that's marked both for WEC and Carrera Cup, Friday 5.30-8 PM? |
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 17:29 (Ref:3817536) | #1493 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,104
|
|||
|
26 Apr 2018, 17:36 (Ref:3817539) | #1494 | |
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
||
|
26 Apr 2018, 17:46 (Ref:3817542) | #1495 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,521
|
|||
__________________
"Not the pronoun but a player with the unlikely name of Who is on first." |
26 Apr 2018, 18:31 (Ref:3817550) | #1496 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
|
Haven't people been saying that since 2013?
|
|
|
26 Apr 2018, 18:38 (Ref:3817551) | #1497 | ||
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Quote:
Possible reasons: A, B, D, G, J, K, L If they win LM, they will ditch P1 Possible reasons: C, F, M If they lose LM, they will continue in P1 Possible reasons: A, B, E, G, H, I, J, K, L If they lose LM, they will ditch P1 Possible reasons: C, I, M, N A) Toyota is actively involved in the 2020/21 regulation making B) The original reported/rumored plan for Toyota was to run Spa/LM/Fuji only. Whether that's true or not, the ACO has made the 'must run full season' for factory team to be eligible for Le Mans entry. So regardless of what happens in 2018, Toyota is respecting that rule because they want to enter Le Mans 2019 and/or beyond C) Toyota is bluffing and intends to ditch P1 after Le Mans 2018 regardless of what happens there (they know they can get around of ACO's "threats") D) Toyota is only willing to respect the said commitment if they happen to win in 2018 (they know they can get around of ACO's 'threats') E) Toyota is only willing to respect the said commitment if they don't happen to win in 2018 (they know they can get around of ACO's 'threats') F) Toyota is only interested in winning Le Mans once G) Toyota wants to win Le Mans more than once (to top Mazda?) without taking a break from participation H) Toyota will never stop until they at least win Le Mans I) Toyota is embarrassed to have lost to the privateers J) Alonso's confirmed seat for beyond Le Mans, can't disappoint him and PR K) Anthony Davidson racing in LMP2 only after Le Mans (cannot do LMP1 because of direct conlict with Toyota presence), and other driver conflicts L) Toyota representatives at Sebring and past talks of 'demo runs' there M) Mercedes 1999 like disaster or some other bizarre incident (on track or off) that creates too much bad PR for the brand N) Boycott or lobbying towards to ACO/FIA for reasons of X |
||
|
26 Apr 2018, 19:52 (Ref:3817559) | #1498 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
Quote:
|
||
|
26 Apr 2018, 20:28 (Ref:3817562) | #1499 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,423
|
The pace may be similar but the stint lengths different. Makes Toyota hybrid look efficient if they run a lap longer, and those laps add up. Maybe.
|
||
|
26 Apr 2018, 21:47 (Ref:3817566) | #1500 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15,467
|
Possibly 2 laps at Spa if it's supposed to be 1 lap for Le Mans. I wonder if the ACO will let that stand or try to close it up.
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2018 VASC Silly Season (with POLL) | GTRMagic | Australasian Touring Cars. | 2074 | 19 Oct 2018 05:49 |
[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season. | F1Guy | Formula One | 1204 | 16 Sep 2018 23:44 |
WEC round 8: Six Hours of Bahrain---WEC season finale. | chernaudi | ACO Regulated Series | 212 | 23 Nov 2015 22:17 |
Hockenheim secures new deal until 2018 | jab | Formula One | 13 | 2 Oct 2009 00:25 |