The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[Simmi]

It does look like Toyota have thrown the FIA/ACO a serious bone by signing up full-time. They might do well to remind them of that if the equivalency isn't quite where it should be.

Also not sure if it's been mentioned by Hiroaki Ishiura is the first Japanese driver confirmed in the second car. Good choice? I have to admit I have zero idea about the pace of the SGT guys.

[alexkiller8]

SGT cars are prototypes that run in similiar lmp2 lap times, so i guess that is easier for a SGT driver to switch in a lmp1 car than a GT driver (but in the reality not always true because drivers like brabham and sarrazin have been fast as soon they entered in a 908HDi from dbr9 experience)

[Acid09]

Looking at the splash Treluyer & Lotterer made at Le Mans I'd say that SGT seems to be excellent preparation for LMP racing.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It does look like Toyota have thrown the FIA/ACO a serious bone by signing up full-time. They might do well to remind them of that if the equivalency isn't quite where it should be.

Absolutely. With budgets already set Toyota has done a huge favor. They haven't done it for free though...

oh and, anyone else notice the 2012 regulations (restrictors) haven't been released yet?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

oh and, anyone else notice the 2012 regulations (restrictors) haven't been released yet?

They are hinting at them through this document (pg 8 of 12).

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They are hinting at them through this document (pg 8 of 12).

We already have this, but it is just the draft for 2012 and more than a month old:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2012L...20-%20Copy.pdf

I'm speaking to the specifics of the restrictors for 2012. These are juggled every year. I wouldn't be too surprised if the FIA took a beneficial line to Toyota and all the gas burners.

[TF110]

It was posted in another thread here. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1475

All the refuelling equipment will have the same flow.
No modifications will be made to the petrol engines in 2012.
The performance of the diesel engines will be pegged back by around 7% by decreasing the size of the air restrictors and the supercharger pressure.
The diameter of the restrictors will be reduced from 47.4 mm to 45.8 mm for engines that have a single restrictor, and from 33.5 mm to 32.4 mm for those engines that have two.
In addition, the supercharger pressure of the turbos will be reduced from 3 000 to 2 800 milibars.
The fuel tank capacity of diesel-engined LM P1 cars will be reduced by 5 litres (65 to 60 litres).

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by TF110

It was posted in another thread here. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1475

All the refuelling equipment will have the same flow.
No modifications will be made to the petrol engines in 2012.
The performance of the diesel engines will be pegged back by around 7% by decreasing the size of the air restrictors and the supercharger pressure.
The diameter of the restrictors will be reduced from 47.4 mm to 45.8 mm for engines that have a single restrictor, and from 33.5 mm to 32.4 mm for those engines that have two.
In addition, the supercharger pressure of the turbos will be reduced from 3 000 to 2 800 milibars.
The fuel tank capacity of diesel-engined LM P1 cars will be reduced by 5 litres (65 to 60 litres).

the whole Dome, Toyota and Audi news is great. does anyone know who should have the Hybrid advantage? im guessing audi is using the Flywheel which is the same used in the Porsche 911 hybrid but will it come with the supercharger as with all the R18's?

[AGD]

So I'm confused. I know that Toyota is registered as a full-time team, but do they actually plan on racing in all the post-Sebring races or will it still be a cherry pick deal? Did the ACO grant Toyota waivers for planned force majeure?

[Steptoe]

Looks like the ACO have deemed which end of the car the hybrid system drives . Quote from the LM 24 press release "
3. Hybrid engines
Energy can be released to the front wheels but only above 120 km/h. Safety measures concerning the specific braking requirements for hybrid engines have also been defined. "

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Steptoe

Looks like the ACO have deemed which end of the car the hybrid system drives . Quote from the LM 24 press release "
3. Hybrid engines
Energy can be released to the front wheels but only above 120 km/h. Safety measures concerning the specific braking requirements for hybrid engines have also been defined. "

ACO is usually good to use the word "only", so i guess they haven't ruled out rear wheels yet?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by TF110

It was posted in another thread here. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1475

All the refuelling equipment will have the same flow.
No modifications will be made to the petrol engines in 2012.
The performance of the diesel engines will be pegged back by around 7% by decreasing the size of the air restrictors and the supercharger pressure.
The diameter of the restrictors will be reduced from 47.4 mm to 45.8 mm for engines that have a single restrictor, and from 33.5 mm to 32.4 mm for those engines that have two.
In addition, the supercharger pressure of the turbos will be reduced from 3 000 to 2 800 milibars.
The fuel tank capacity of diesel-engined LM P1 cars will be reduced by 5 litres (65 to 60 litres).

The point is: the rules are NOT definitive even at this late stage, everything is tentative and the ACO have not released the final 2012 rules. The most tentative item are, of course, the inlet restrictors. And of course my point is that with Toyota granting a huge favor to the FIA, this might be the best chance we've had since '06 of achieving gas to diesel parity.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by CTD

ACO is usually good to use the word "only", so i guess they haven't ruled out rear wheels yet?

Hey thats exactly what i was thinking. so before 120km/h use rear wheels then switch to front after. how effective that will just be a massive black hole. at 120 k's is there even a point in having front wheel drive? in the corners it will just lead to massive under steer

[cmk]

Originally Posted by evanPGH

I always thought Mugello would be a great testing track for Le Mans. It's got a nice long front straight and a heavy braking zone for turn one, a good combination of sweepers, 90 degree lefts and rights and a couple low speed hairpins. Now that I think of it, Mugello's first sector is very similar to the last sector at La Sarthe, mostly the tail end of the Porsche curves to the start line. It's also not the smoothest track out there.

Isn't it owned by Fiat? That might be a problem for teams renting it out; I don't think much open testing/tyre company testing goes on there does it?

[alexkiller8]

in my opinion mugello is more similiar to road atlanta configuration than le mans track. I did a track day last year there and in my opinion the only thing in common between mugello and le mans track is just "arrabbiata" turns that may remind a bit porsche turns.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AGD

So I'm confused. I know that Toyota is registered as a full-time team, but do they actually plan on racing in all the post-Sebring races or will it still be a cherry pick deal? Did the ACO grant Toyota waivers for planned force majeure?

Me too. Does the "unexpected changes" in the PR include a rule revision?

It was originally planned to enter only selected races, which would have fallen short of the number required to be considered a full-time entrant but due to the unexpected changes faced by the FIA World Endurance Championship, that plan has been revised.

[TF110]

It may have something to do with Peugeot pulling out?

[ronnie peterson]

It's definitely something to do with Peugeot. To score points as a manufacturer you need to be a full time participant.

http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...ist_310112.pdf

In this full season entry list you can see that Toyota stands next to Audi on the manufacturers table. It would have looked pretty bad if there was only Audi there...

[TF110]

I figure they stepped up their participation to get points and prize money in return, and to maybe fill in for the loss of Peugeot?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

We already have this, but it is just the draft for 2012 and more than a month old:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2012L...20-%20Copy.pdf

I'm speaking to the specifics of the restrictors for 2012. These are juggled every year. I wouldn't be too surprised if the FIA took a beneficial line to Toyota and all the gas burners.

E-I has some info on the 2012 regulations:
http://www.translate.google.dk/trans...2F&sl=fr&tl=en

Performance of diesel engines have been reduced by about 7% through restrictions on the flanges and the boost pressure. The diameter of said flanges increases from 47.4 mm to 45.8 mm for engines that have them and one of 33.5 mm to 32.4 mm for engines which have them both. Moreover, the boost pressure of turbos is reduced from 3 000 to 2800 millibars. - Reduction of 5 liters capacity tanks of diesel-powered LM P1, the latter passing from 65 to 60 liters.

A massive hit so far, as i can see.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by CTD

E-I has some info on the 2012 regulations:
http://www.translate.google.dk/trans...2F&sl=fr&tl=en

A massive hit so far, as i can see.

Is this the same 7% decrease in restrictor size that was announced at the end of last year? The boostpressure and tank size are new if i'm not mistaking.

[Ultimo]

As I understand it, new regs are coming for 2014 (or is it 2015 now?). This gives the TS030 two years to beat Audi, and I think this year is a long shot, with the car being so new and all.

Seems like an odd decision to make a car for these regulations with maybe only one realistic shot to win at Le Mans.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Ultimo

As I understand it, new regs are coming for 2014 (or is it 2015 now?). This gives the TS030 two years to beat Audi, and I think this year is a long shot, with the car being so new and all.

Seems like an odd decision to make a car for these regulations with maybe only one realistic shot to win at Le Mans.

Rules are for 2014. The rumor that they had been pushed off to 2015 are, as of last week, incorrect.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by CTD

E-I has some info on the 2012 regulations:
http://www.translate.google.dk/trans...2F&sl=fr&tl=en

A massive hit so far, as i can see.

But the point is, 2012 restrictors are NOT official as we stand right now. ACO and FIA are due to meet again on February 14. It's my understanding the majority time will be spent on ACO2014 but I would hope the 2012 rules would finally be released.

[Maelochs]

I am thinking Toyota realized that with Peugeot out, Toyota could see some podium finishes and could possibly finish second or third in constructor points, for the cost of the entry fee and adding a couple races to its planned schedule.

Also, with Audi the only diesel, ACO is a lot more likely to really hit the diesel/gasoline parity issue. A runaway for Audi at every race would hurt the WEC in its first year.

I'd say Toyota's move came because the company saw a chance to score some cheap PR--and I wouldn't be surprised in ACO/FIA did a little begging and promising.

The Feb. 14 meeting should produce some interesting news.