Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[gttouring]

I would be eager to see how this plays out, i still can't wrap my head around a few things...
1) why the dallara chassis insists on leaving that nose in place- if all aero kits and bits are free elsewhere- the nose can have drastic influence on the aerodynamics- not the crash structure but the nose...
2)again the bizarre- Indy only 2.4 liter V6 twin Turbo formula and what is the spec for any other engine allowed? Ok f1 has 2.4 liters N/A engines but that is F1, Indy isn't. you can harangue about any other series and their specification but they are found in another series somewhere, or adaptable to it. can you punch out one of these mills to a totally inefficient LMP1 engine in ALMS? not for top honor i don't think- Maybe like honda did, but they where in the P2 category using a 2.5 weren't they?
3)This is INDY- where is the Wildcard? the Innovator? the Mavericks and Cowboys? doing what made Indy the legend it is- thanks for leashing that defining aspect of indy when you had a chance to release it again.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by gttouring

I would be eager to see how this plays out, i still can't wrap my head around a few things...
1) why the dallara chassis insists on leaving that nose in place- if all aero kits and bits are free elsewhere- the nose can have drastic influence on the aerodynamics- not the crash structure but the nose...
2)again the bizarre- Indy only 2.4 liter V6 twin Turbo formula and what is the spec for any other engine allowed? Ok f1 has 2.4 liters N/A engines but that is F1, Indy isn't. you can harangue about any other series and their specification but they are found in another series somewhere, or adaptable to it. can you punch out one of these mills to a totally inefficient LMP1 engine in ALMS? not for top honor i don't think- Maybe like honda did, but they where in the P2 category using a 2.5 weren't they?
3)This is INDY- where is the Wildcard? the Innovator? the Mavericks and Cowboys? doing what made Indy the legend it is- thanks for leashing that defining aspect of indy when you had a chance to release it again.

You want to go to Dallas?

[Tim Northcutt]

There won't be more than 2 engine builders for 2012, according to this link.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...ngine-builders

Others can come for 2013, but Randy says today is the deadline and anything beyond that would be too late to get aboard if they haven't done so already.

I actually thought it made the most sense for Fiat/Alfa Romeo to do it since they will really be steeping forward in the US auto market in 2012...

[gttouring]

We've seen this fight before Honda/Chevy...the deadline should be set by Indy with the most people watching and the news can be final for next year. Duh. Stupid Indy management. I can make these same mistakes you are doing and new ones and fail just as spectacularly. Actually hire me. Because anything you are doing is working sooooo well for you I am bound to make it better. For that matter anyone in thisforum

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to these articles, FIAT are considering selling a 49% stake in Ferrari, which might explain their lack of commitment:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/16/r...-ahead-of-mer/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-m...f-ferrari.html

[Tim Northcutt]

How About This Turn of Events?

Curt Cavin just tweeted that IICS will announce the 3rd engine manufacturer tomorrow at 5 Eastern time.

Don't know where they are announcing it, but something tells me that Fiat got off the dime and decided to go for it by contacting Randy yesterday.

[Tim Northcutt]

The plot thickens...

Crash Gladys is thinking that it is not Fiat, but Lotus, who will work with Kalkhoven to badge a Cosworth engine to add more involvement with KK than they already have going right now.

Others on forums are speculating that it'll be a Ford-badged Cosworth, but I'm not sure I'm buying that...mountainstar said he has been hearing all along that Ford wasn't interested.

Supposedly, this will be announced at the LA Auto Show tomorrow.

I think Cosworth is tied into this somehow, but with whom?

It's anybody's guess until it is official.

[JagtechOhio]

I don't think relying on inside information from mountainstar is prudent.

[Tim Northcutt]

This just came up on the Indy Star:

http://blogs.indystar.com/racingexpe...-by-lotus-too/

Lotus is the 3rd engine supplier...I'm betting they're badging a Cosworth

[gttouring]

i will be at the auto show tomorrow I will look about for lotus (the manufacturer- or the Malaysian interloper?)
watch it turns out to be Ford anyway- and Dodge gets in on the act with Toyota and a curve ball from Hyundai-Cosworth
its a 6 party circus -

[bjohnsonsmith]

I said many posts ago I thought Cosworth and Lotus might form a partnership.

[Peat]

Interesting.

I must say, i am delighted that there is some light at the end of the IndyCar tunnel!

[Canada ALMS fan]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ines-for-2012/

[Canada ALMS fan]

Indycar.com will be streaming the announcement at 5 pm ET.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

I don't think relying on inside information from mountainstar is prudent.

I'm an "insider"? That's news to me. Even if I was an "insider" I certainly don't aspire to be one.

I use what I come across in the course of my work to frame my opinions on various matters, but I've never been one to engage in ego boosting with posting my private conversations with people in the business on public forums, blogging, painting bedrooms in sponsor colors, stalking people down at the race track or public announcements or other SUPERFAN nonsense.

The Lotus deal is what KK has been angling for, for a long time. A B2B deal with Lotus to sell stuff. Mr Bahar is taking a big gamble with Lotus, massively increasing the size of car production in a short space of time. They've got dreams to rival Porsche and Ferrari, but Rome wasn't built in a day and Lotus has always been a fringe manufacturer catering to the low end wealthy and a certain type of buyer. They sell 700 cars a year in the USA, so do the math on that one.

Whether the irl has 2 or 20 manufacturers, could care less to me. When the ownership changes, I'll listen, but I have my ethics and my boundaries and the hulmangeorges are not getting a dime of my money. If other people choose to do so, that's up to them.

What still hasn't been explained is how exactly teams become profitable with no "works" revenue from manufacturers, horrifying attendance, tv ratings lower than the ShamWoW!! wipe your butt rag infomercial, and few cash paying sponsors.

[JagtechOhio]

The math looks like Bahar has $1.2 Billion to play with, and ambitions that are even more astronomical:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...makeover-team/

So if it's Lotus that is announced as the new competitor tomorrow, and if Cosworth gets the contract, KK is fat and happy.

Edit: some notes from the article...

The 2013 Esprit is projected to get "A Lexus-sourced V-8 making 620 horsepower, the company says." Ain't that a Honda motor? Cosworth will be tuning that?

And the caption for one of the other Lotus darts: "This sporty two-seater is likely to be powered by a 450-horsepower Toyota V-6 when it arrives late 2012 or early 2013". Maybe that would be the connection?

[JagtechOhio]

Ooops, my bad. That is the connection, and has been in place for a while.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/04/l...mance-engines/

[icemachine]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The math looks like Bahar has $1.2 Billion to play with, and ambitions that are even more astronomical:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...makeover-team/

So if it's Lotus that is announced as the new competitor tomorrow, and if Cosworth gets the contract, KK is fat and happy.

Those are some seriously sexy cars

[bjohnsonsmith]

Lotus are facing the problem as to who owns the rights to Lotus as far as F1 racing is concerned. Currently the name Team Lotus is owned by David Hunt, brother of the late F1 WDC James Hunt. Tony Fernandes of Lotus Racing is hoping to aquire the name but is in a bitter dispute with Proton the owners of Lotus, who want to run their own team also to be called Lotus. So far it looks like there will be two Lotus F1 teams an 'official' team and a Lotus-Renault team. Either way the branding needs to be sorted out as it could become very confusing, as to which Lotus F1 team the IndyCar team has 'ties' with and could be detrimental to any marketing strategy Lotus might have for the US.

[marcostraz]

This news about Lotus is excellent...I think that slowly the skepticism around the 2012 regulations is going to be proved wrong...I hope and believe that this news will think some organizer and even in 2012 or 2013 we could see the return of some tracks...

[Tim Northcutt]

Personally, I thought that the Chevy announcement was more of a surprise than this one...

I expected Cosworth and KK to get in much sooner than this, to be honest.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

The math looks like Bahar has $1.2 Billion to play with, and ambitions that are even more astronomical:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...makeover-team/

So if it's Lotus that is announced as the new competitor tomorrow, and if Cosworth gets the contract, KK is fat and happy.

Edit: some notes from the article...

The 2013 Esprit is projected to get "A Lexus-sourced V-8 making 620 horsepower, the company says." Ain't that a Honda motor? Cosworth will be tuning that?

And the caption for one of the other Lotus darts: "This sporty two-seater is likely to be powered by a 450-horsepower Toyota V-6 when it arrives late 2012 or early 2013". Maybe that would be the connection?

Yeah if there is a lot of cosworth engineering that goes into those cars it could end up paying off for cosworth over the years. Having been to the Lotus factory I don't think they have the capacity to handle ramping up production on 5 new cars all at once, so they'll have to have outside help.

Lexus is Toyota not honda, pretty much the engines in the current Lotus cars are toyota corolla and camry engines.

It an ambitious plan, big gamble to do what Lotus is trying to do in a weak world economy and with tons of competition.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lotus are facing the problem as to who owns the rights to Lotus as far as F1 racing is concerned. Currently the name Team Lotus is owned by David Hunt, brother of the late F1 WDC James Hunt. Tony Fernandes of Lotus Racing is hoping to aquire the name but is in a bitter dispute with Proton the owners of Lotus, who want to run their own team also to be called Lotus. So far it looks like there will be two Lotus F1 teams an 'official' team and a Lotus-Renault team. Either way the branding needs to be sorted out as it could become very confusing, as to which Lotus F1 team the IndyCar team has 'ties' with and could be detrimental to any marketing strategy Lotus might have for the US.

Other than some hardcore race fans and some old timers, Lotus doesn't have much of a brand presence in the USA or a "name". It is very much a niche manufacturer. At one point in the 1990's there was one year where they only sold something like 20 cars in a whole year.

As it is with KV racing, and you can read KK verbatim in his public comments, essentially it is a pay driver resort which you pay to play and the Lotus name will probably be just a small part of it.

Personally in my opinion with what I have seen in what it takes to make it as a manufacturer in the high end sportscar market is that you have to race the cars. Like with Ferrari, Porsche, Aston and so on, Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Supercup, GT2, GT3 and so on. I think Lotus would be better served to focus on that rather than branding open wheel cars, but that's just me.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Personally, I thought that the Chevy announcement was more of a surprise than this one...

I expected Cosworth and KK to get in much sooner than this, to be honest.

KK is one of the kings of B2B dealings, along with penske and others. Champcar was one big B2B trading post.

Cosworth is much more than an engine company now under their stewardship and there is much potential for using B2B deals to pay for your racing, even if the commercial benefits on the open market are nil.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Other than some hardcore race fans and some old timers, Lotus doesn't have much of a brand presence in the USA or a "name". It is very much a niche manufacturer. At one point in the 1990's there was one year where they only sold something like 20 cars in a whole year.

As it is with KV racing, and you can read KK verbatim in his public comments, essentially it is a pay driver resort which you pay to play and the Lotus name will probably be just a small part of it.

Personally in my opinion with what I have seen in what it takes to make it as a manufacturer in the high end sportscar market is that you have to race the cars. Like with Ferrari, Porsche, Aston and so on, Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Supercup, GT2, GT3 and so on. I think Lotus would be better served to focus on that rather than branding open wheel cars, but that's just me.

Uh, they are.