The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[deggis]

Originally Posted by ronnie peterson

It's definitely something to do with Peugeot. To score points as a manufacturer you need to be a full time participant.

http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...ist_310112.pdf

In this full season entry list you can see that Toyota stands next to Audi on the manufacturers table. It would have looked pretty bad if there was only Audi there...

I know, but the question is Toyota actually going to participate in all races besides Sebring? I'd expect them to, but they could have gotten a permission to miss some other races too due "the unexpected changes" (=Peugeot obviously).

Many pages ago I mentioned that in WRC, Mini was granted a full manufacturer status, despite that they're not going to take part in every rally. I could see this as as similar situation...

Also that mentioned (http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1527) requirement of two manufacturers... so you would think that this was made more on Toyota's terms.

[TF110]

They just confirmed they'll do the whole WEC minus Sebring. What's there to question? I'd say the Toyota has a very good shot now with the regs changing. And a possible more tweaking in the near future! And this is taking place before Sebring? If they change it after they may hinder Audi more considerably since Toyota won't be there? Remember the tweaking after Spa last year.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

They just confirmed they'll do the whole WEC minus Sebring.

No. They confirmed that they have entered the championship, which in these circumstances might not mean all races minus Sebring. Of course the presumption should be that they will race in every race after Sebring. But if the whole P1 manufacturers championship was up to Toyota's participation, then I think FIA-ACO might have wanted to play nice.

[GTfour]

About the diesel/petrol equality, it is as I predicted a few years ago. As soon as Peugeot withdraws, then, and only then, will the techregs be fair.
The diesels have done their show, in the current day attitude they are no longer favoured and thus come the hybrids.

[alexkiller8]

well diesel engines maybe aren't advantaged anymore, but the only diesel engine remained (even if fia tells that this year there won't be diesel...) is the audi inside the r18/r18h, that is still a painkiller combination.
Just think about that peugeot revealed that 908H4 2012 model, meanwhile the 2012 specs power loss (with new restrictors if a diesel engine could develope 600hp in a certain spec now will develope 560) and fenders was able to run at least one second faster than the 908 2011 model.
Maybe more equity between diesel-petrol engine has been reached but the cars that were the strongest before will be even now.

[gucom]

Originally Posted by GTfour

About the diesel/petrol equality, it is as I predicted a few years ago. As soon as Peugeot withdraws, then, and only then, will the techregs be fair.
The diesels have done their show, in the current day attitude they are no longer favoured and thus come the hybrids.

but weren't these diesel restrictions first announced / mentioned long before Peugeot withdrew? And similar restrictions have been placed on the diesels in almost each of the past 5 years...

I'm still not at all convinced that the diesels enjoy a regulatory advantage; I'm sure they did at first, but now, after so many successive restrictions?!? I guess Toyota's entry will finally give us a good picture, although we should probably give them at least a year to reach their full potential.

Even better would be to wait untill they take all the lessons from the TS030 to make any necessary fundamental changes to a TS040 (if they decide to do so). Of course by that time the 2014 rules will be in effect, which will hopefully solve the problem once and for all.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by gucom

I'm still not at all convinced that the diesels enjoy a regulatory advantage; I'm sure they did at first, but now, after so many successive restrictions?!? I guess Toyota's entry will finally give us a good picture, although we should probably give them at least a year to reach their full potential.

Well, if lap times are anything to by at La Sarthe last year, Rebellion were like 7 seconds off the pace in comparison to Oreca, the slowest diesel. I'm not sure about getting the whole picture considering Toyota are going hybrid and I have no idea how the regs pertain to that. I think we'll see what the balance is like when comparing Audi and Toyota to the privateers.

[deggis]

Not much new stuff appearing right now, so here's a video clip I saw on eurosport.com. Some new track footage from the test and pointless short (dubbed) interviews with Vasselon, Lapierre and Wurz:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/...s-le-mans.html

(Video title is typical Eurosport-mistake. )

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

The point is: the rules are NOT definitive even at this late stage, everything is tentative and the ACO have not released the final 2012 rules.

But have FIA? http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regul...s/fia-wec.aspx

That is the same version (WMSC stamped 23.09.2011, published 06.12.2011) than the draft you linked, though.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

No. They confirmed that they have entered the championship, which in these circumstances might not mean all races minus Sebring. Of course the presumption should be that they will race in every race after Sebring. But if the whole P1 manufacturers championship was up to Toyota's participation, then I think FIA-ACO might have wanted to play nice.

Nicolas Lapierre seems to disagree with you- http://twitter.com/#!/Nico_Lapierre

[chernaudi]

I have no doubt that Toyota will try and make at least most of the races following Sebring--if nothing else, it gives them some legitimate on track testing that they might not have had otherwise and can give them a huge start on 2013. More miles, more opportunities to learn and evolve, and the quicker they can do that, the quicker they can take on Audi at LM, or even possibly leap ahead.

One of the problems of Cadillac's program was that it focused too much on private testing and not enough in-race testing. I don't think that it'll be an issue for Toyota now, and they'll certainly have a good balance now.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Nicolas Lapierre seems to disagree with you- http://twitter.com/#!/Nico_Lapierre

I'm not disagreeing, but that doesn't change what Toyota said officially.

[TF110]

They changed their stance on entering certain rounds. What's hard to see? You even have their driver stating they'll do every round except Sebring. Show me where Toyota said in their new statement what you're suggesting.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

They changed their stance on entering certain rounds. What's hard to see? You even have their driver stating they'll do every round except Sebring. Show me where Toyota said in their new statement what you're suggesting.

I said that I expect them to race in every race minus Sebring but my point was that the PR just doesn't 100% clearly confirm this because we don't know on what conditions Toyota entered the championship. But this is now pointless after seeing that tweet by Lapierre.

[tyronnezx]

hey guys on another note, any news on whos going to be driving the second car? or even an idea when the driver lineup for the second car will be announced? we've all seen the links with Buemi but he had signed up as the third driver for the RB8 so where does his chances lie?

[Adam43]

Thanks for putting that one to bed.

So who's off to Spa...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

hey guys on another note, any news on whos going to be driving the second car? or even an idea when the driver lineup for the second car will be announced? we've all seen the links with Buemi but he had signed up as the third driver for the RB8 so where does his chances lie?

Not officially announced, but Ishiura is on the 24 entry list as the driver.

Despite Buemi's test drive signing for sure he won't be driving much.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by deggis

Not officially announced, but Ishiura is on the 24 entry list as the driver.

Despite Buemi's test drive signing for sure he won't be driving much.

cheers for that, im just curious to see if any of the Peugeot refugees had jumped on the Toyota ship. Im with everyone that says Toyota should goto sebring or at least test the car there before Lemans. in saying that tho does anyone know if Toyota will return to paul ricard for the mid feb-test?

[Simmi]

I figure the thinking behind the drivers for the second squad changed in light of the Peugeot news.

I truly believe they were going to enter two cars at LM regardless but now there are some choice drivers on the market. They'd be daft not to at least explore their options.

[evanPGH]

I'm still crossing my fingers for Toyota to sign Montagny.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by evanPGH

I'm still crossing my fingers for Toyota to sign Montagny.

Maybe Ullrich is considering putting him in the 4th Audi. Ha. That would be a hoot. But, yeah, you would think that Davidson would be a pretty hot commodity at the moment. Bourdais too, but I think he already has plans to be in the Pescarolo Dome.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AGD

Maybe Ullrich is considering putting him in the 4th Audi. Ha. That would be a hoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xipnO9gofhI

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by AGD

Maybe Ullrich is considering putting him in the 4th Audi. Ha. That would be a hoot. But, yeah, you would think that Davidson would be a pretty hot commodity at the moment. Bourdais too, but I think he already has plans to be in the Pescarolo Dome.

yeah i think Nico Minassian had been snapped up and so had Bourdais. the only ones i would really want to see in that car are Davison or Pegenaud or Douval. not too sure about frank tho

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by evanPGH

I'm still crossing my fingers for Toyota to sign Montagny.

That would make it very hard for me to cheer for them, even though I really don't want Audi to dominate.

[TF110]

^Why is that? What's wrong with Montagny? Or is it that you think Toyota should go with others? On the testing side, I hope they test Sebring. Then we could have a comparison of lap times in some sense. Anyone know the layout they used @Ricard, and how those times compare?