British GP to be held at Donington

[strider]

Originally Posted by Piglet

I too am bored with this. Perhaps the fairies at the bottom of the garden who subbed Gillet £12m quid could please come and take him away.....

Sorry to hear that, Piglet. I came across a nice phrase from Joe Saward today that I was keeping in reserve, but you are welcome to borrow it if you like. "That is my opinion and I am not interested in arguing any more."

Forgetting the GP for a moment, because now that is either going to be run at Silverstone or it is not, I am very worried about the future of Donington itself.

The situation seems to be:

1. DVLL owe Bernie so much money (see here) that he's not even going to try to recover it.

2. DVLL still owe the Wheatcrofts considerable arrears of rent (possibly millions) so the likelihood is that the Wheatcrofts are going to have to re-possess the circuit.

3. However, I'm far from certain that, as a result of the relatively small amount of work that has been done towards creating the proposed GP circuit, the existing circuit is in a usable condition. So anyone trying to operate it in the future, whether it be the Wheatcrofts or someone else, will have to overcome that problem first.

It would be a massive shame if the circuit were to be lost for all the other categories that have used it in the past.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by strider

"That is my opinion and I am not interested in arguing any more."

Oh....I'm not so bored that I can't argue

I share your concern for Donington, I hope the Wheatcroft co (is it Wheatcroft and sons or have I made that up?) can take ownership back and get it up and running again.

When was the last time they ran the circuit themselves though?

I just can't see anyone else taking it on at present, it's really not the economic climate for further investment....

[garcon]

This Gillett bloke isn't related to that other fraud who owns half of Liverpool FC is he?

I'm beginning to think someone conveniently near to Donington should pop round to shake him warmly by the throat.

Preferably upside down so we can see whether, as I suspect, his pockets are empty...

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Piglet

I share your concern for Donington, I hope the Wheatcroft co (is it Wheatcroft and sons or have I made that up?) can take ownership back and get it up and running again.

When was the last time they ran the circuit themselves though?

It was... dunno. I'm not sure if the Wheatcrofts have ever "run" the circuit, there's usually someone else acting as the management. It was the Nottingham Sports Car Club many years ago, and then some local(ish) concert promoter was operationally responsible for it (but I can't remember who). I think Gillet took over from them, but there might have been a period with someone else in between.

As I posted elsewhere (maybe in this thread... maybe others) to get the track back to an operational state will require some work. To get the circuit as a whole, including spectator facilities, is a whole different ball game.

I just can't see anyone else taking it on at present, it's really not the economic climate for further investment....

Whither MSVR now?

On another footing (and dream), for some reason I keep coming back to Bernie taking over completely as DVLL default on the contract and lease; he then extends the Collection building and houses his (or some of his) collection of cars alongside the Wheatcroft's. That would be something a lot of people would pay very good money for, I'm sure. Especially if they did the occasional demonstration day...

Like I said, a crazy dream...

[foreversideways]

Coming soon to a used car pitch near you, Simon Gillett. Put the man out of his misery Bernie and send him to the bankruptcy court.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Greem

Whither MSVR now?

It would be MSV (MSVR is just the race organising operation - MSV owns the circuits).

I'm not sure JP would want to take on more investment (significant investment one imagines?) in this climate? As you say, even having got the track useable again there is a huge amount that needs to be done. The Paddock area is a mess, the loo's are horrific and the hospitality suites have clearly all seen better days. Loads of investment needed for how much return PLUS would it just then be two competing "big" circuits in Brands and Donington? Is there enough high level stuff around especially given the problems of the pit lane at Donington for cars?

The "big" investment at Snet is on hold for now and I don't think that there is money sloshing around ready to be spent...

Even if someone gave me a lease of the circuit for free for the next 10 years I'm not sure I'd want it...

[terence]

OK,it would be a shame if there were no BGP,would that matter? No!
Would loosing what could become [with the right staff] the best Motorsport Facility in the UK ? Absolutely!
The Track does need relatively minor patching up/relaying but that would be easily sorted.Problem then is replacing any barriers that have been removed,and sorting out the infield,smoothed over and re-seeded,the grass would not take too long to come up.By the look of the Craner slope,looking down from the infield,that is whats been needed for a long while,perfect spectators viewing area,closer to the action etc.

Quite simple really.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Piglet

I share your concern for Donington, I hope the Wheatcroft co (is it Wheatcroft and sons or have I made that up?) can take ownership back and get it up and running again.

When was the last time they ran the circuit themselves though?

I just can't see anyone else taking it on at present, it's really not the economic climate for further investment....

I think it's Tom Wheatcroft and one son, whose name I've forgotten.

Your last two sentences sum up the problem. I don't think they have ever run it themselves. They've leased it out, pocketed the rent and let someone else have the aggro of making the place pay for itself.

As you say, right now, I don't see anyone wanting to take it on, particularly with the added expense of having to restore things to how they used to be.

Pessimistic, I know, but also realistic.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by strider

I think it's Tom Wheatcroft and one son, whose name I've forgotten.
Your last two sentences sum up the problem. I don't think they have ever run it themselves. They've leased it out, pocketed the rent and let someone else have the aggro of making the place pay for itself.

As you say, right now, I don't see anyone wanting to take it on, particularly with the added expense of having to restore things to how they used to be.

Pessimistic, I know, but also realistic.

Tom has more than one son (and a daughter) but it's only his son Kevin who's involved with him at the circuit.

[strider]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Tom has more than one son (and a daughter) but it's only his son Kevin who's involved with him at the circuit.

Thanks for the clarification. Kevin is the name I was trying to remember.

[numbersix]

Surely, Silverstone must have some deadline beyond which they wouldn't have time to organise the GP at all, or a deadline for a commitment to fill the GP weekend with a race that WILL make them money.

I wonder how long we've got before this debacle reaches any form of conclusion?

(Apologies if this should be on the Silverstone thread.)

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by old man

Whitmarsh agrees with the sentiments on this thread:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79803

Thank goodness for Martin Whitmarsh to inject some sense into this. The British Grand Prix is arguably one of the most important on the calendar in terms of teams/sponsors/drivers etc... and that's even before we consider the fans. The 'we don't need a British Grand Prix' attitude of BE is a gross insult to all these stakeholders. Formula One is far more than BE and Formula One does need a British Grand Prix. Its perfectly obvious what's happening here... BE is playing two commercially unviable propositions off against each other - Silverstone/BRDC and Donington/Gillett - knowing that neither of them will come to fruition. He can then replace the event on the calendar with somewhere else in the Middle East.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Greem

On another footing (and dream), for some reason I keep coming back to Bernie taking over completely as DVLL default on the contract and lease; he then extends the Collection building and houses his (or some of his) collection of cars alongside the Wheatcroft's. That would be something a lot of people would pay very good money for, I'm sure. Especially if they did the occasional demonstration day...

Like I said, a crazy dream...

I seem to think the collection is not part of the DVLL deal, not sure where I got that from but agree it would be great to see the two together

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Surely, Silverstone must have some deadline beyond which they wouldn't have time to organise the GP

I know I'm oversimplifying here, but seriously, how long does it take to print and sell some tickets, employ a few crowd stewards, order in extra supplies for the bar and diner?

Silverstone has the key facilities, they run events most weekends, they should be able to do this. The only real issue is the extra quantity of things and people needed, which really shouldn't take that long to organise.

If push came to shove, and Bernie said we need to run a GP at Silverstone this weekend and I'll guarantee that any 'losses' are covered plus pay a couple of million on top, then (if the circuit weren't already booked this weekend), I'm sure that the Silverstone people have the skills and experience to do it.

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by old man

I seem to think the collection is not part of the DVLL deal, not sure where I got that from but agree it would be great to see the two together

The circuit, museum and cars, with some 'on loan' exceptions belong to the Wheatcroft family, and I would suspect not included in any deal with either Ecclestone or Gillett.

[mickey29]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

I know I'm oversimplifying here, but seriously, how long does it take to print and sell some tickets, employ a few crowd stewards, order in extra supplies for the bar and diner?

Silverstone has the key facilities, they run events most weekends, they should be able to do this. The only real issue is the extra quantity of things and people needed, which really shouldn't take that long to organise.

If push came to shove, and Bernie said we need to run a GP at Silverstone this weekend and I'll guarantee that any 'losses' are covered plus pay a couple of million on top, then (if the circuit weren't already booked this weekend), I'm sure that the Silverstone people have the skills and experience to do it.

Grossly oversimplified. It is a massive logistic exercise. 120000 spectators plus at least 2000 staff if not more, before you even consider the provision of extra toilets and water and subsequent waste disposal.

The traffic requirements require a multi disciplinary co operation between security services, police and other emergency services. It would take at least 6 months to rota staff and recruit volunteers.

The caterers and campsites have to order their products now to ensure their suppliers can manufacture sufficient quantities.

Normally this would be done year on year, with the planning for the next event starting before the previous one.

Hotel and hospitality bookings need to be made at the earliest moment to ensure the facilities are present.

It is not a matter of phoning Carlsberg and ordering a couple of extra barrels and bunging a couple more burgers on the grill.

People seem to take events like this for granted, the work involved really is very complex and can't be the work of a moment.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

I know I'm oversimplifying here, but seriously, how long does it take to print and sell some tickets, employ a few crowd stewards, order in extra supplies for the bar and diner?

The food facilities are subcontracted so that's not a huge issue for the BRDC/Silverstone

The issues relate to things like the temporary grandstands and hospitality units that are brought in, the tracking that goes down in the car parks for wet weather access, hired toilets, generators, showers etc. for the marshals campsite - the infrastructure that isn't at the circuit year in year out. Also being able to get income from the temporary traders (food and other "stuff") who pay to go there - chances are these traders have found other events to put in their diaries or will do if decisions aren't made quickly.

GP time is a busy time of year for outdoor events and if these things aren't easily available then the costs of hiring them increase and the problems grow.

IMO ticket wise, the BRDC need to be able to have tickets on sale by 1 December (plus presumably the temporary staff ready to man the call centre). If they miss Christmas present time they may well struggle to sell them at the usual prices given the economic climate.

[Cornerworker]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

Silverstone has the key facilities, they run events most weekends, they should be able to do this. The only real issue is the extra quantity of things and people needed, which really shouldn't take that long to organise.

Silverstone were obviously aware that this was going to happen because as far as I can tell, none of the grandstands have been taken down from this years event, even the normal temporary ones are still up.....coincidence?

[chunder]

Does anyone else feel that this Gilett Bernie thing is all a little bit of a play the crowd and there is far more to this than meets the eye?

Surely if the money was there it would have been invested already, you can't speculate finance on an event if you dont even know if you are going to be able to run it, and if it wasn't speculation to drum up investment, then why hasn't anything been done other than groundworks and demolition?

It smacks of politics and posturing and I hope Damon and the BRDC tell the little evil man to stuff it.

Save us fans a load of money to watch the worlds dullest motorsport and put on some more free days like the Renault thing to try and attract more new fans to racing and maybe put on some free club days for new fans.

F1 is largely for the corproate masses now, I refuse to pay upwards of 200 quid to sit on hardcore and watch 3 races. Its simply rude, and the reason I havent been to watch F1 since the early 90's. I understand millions want to but that's my four penneth.

My fear is for Donington, was a favourite of mine when I lived near there and spent many a day sprawled on the grass at Old Hairpin. Been butchered since then, but Gillett should be brought to task for what is going on, but he has the slipperiness of a politicican sadly.

[Piglet]

I can't remember but I doubt the temporary grandstands are still up as they don't have planning consent for these.

Unless these days they only have permanent grandstands?

[Crafty_]

I understand that Tom Wheatcroft is not in the best of health, being in his mid 80s thats no surprise.
I think the best thing long term is MSV or BARC buy Donington, or maybe run it under lease, it needs to put back on its feet and returned to profitability, not least to recoup the £3.8m Gillett is alleged to owe the Wheatcrofts. Its too late for 2010, but get lots of racing back there for 2011, even if its only club level stuff.
Maybe they can take over the extra round of BTCC in 2011 (at brands for 2010).

Far as Gillett goes, maybe theres a karting track somewhere that he can't screw up ?

Far as silverstone goes quite apart from all the infrastructure stuff there'd be repairs to do on track, FIA inspections of track and medical facilities, god knows how many health and safety inspections (public liability insurers / local H&S people and so on). Arrange the tv cameras, organise press access as well as all the other stuff people have mentioned. Its a big deal really.

Silverstone did say that they needed to know what was going on back in September so they would know if to take down temporary grandstands/schedule works etc over the winter.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Piglet

The issues relate to things like the temporary grandstands and hospitality units that are brought in, the tracking that goes down in the car parks for wet weather access, hired toilets, generators, showers etc. for the marshals campsite - the infrastructure that isn't at the circuit year in year out.

Ahh, I didn't think that there were any extra grandstands for the GP, and TBH, I figured that they didn't supplement the toilet blocks that they already have on every corner. I realise that some of the stuff that goes on would take more than a few days, but more than 7 months sounds a bit excessive to me. You're all right though, I don't know anything about organising all that stuff myself.

[Delenn]

The one advantage Silverstone have is that they have done this many times before, so they know what they need to be. I know timescales will be shorter than usual, but they have the list to work to.

[Dave 455]

Bernie has given up all hope of Donington hosting the G.P, he say's it will probably be at Silverstone now : -

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/154114/...gton_park.html

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Dave 455

Bernie has given up all hope of Donington hosting the G.P, he say's it will probably be at Silverstone now

That is no more substantial than yesterday's reports that Gillett had paid the money.

...still waiting for BE, SG, or someone from SS to make an official announcement.