[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[chernaudi]

Not to torpedo this thread even further into the deep, the same issue happened with Audi in 2000 after BMW, Nissan, Mercedes, and Toyota bolted from LM for various reasons. Not the fault of Audi or Audi Sport, and they also stuck around though thick and thin for nearly 20 years.

Yes, Toyota do deserve to be commended for sticking around, but their situation is hardly unique. Porsche has had it happen to them in the top class, Audi, Ford, Ferrari, others too numerous to name though the years and it's gone on for decades.

Just like team orders, it reeks on the surface, but with one factory team out there, that's just the boom and bust cycle of road racing, and in the top LM prototype class, having cycles like 2014-16 is often the exception rather than the rule.

[TF110]

It's to early to judge how the season will play out based on one race. I remember in 2013 how Audi whooped on Toyota at Spa and Silverstone but they put up a good race at Le Mans only to lose out by a lap at the end thanks to issues with drivers and weather. With the way things were going, people were expecting them to be dusted by multiple laps. Same thing looks to be happening here. With the way Spa went, the privateers look to be nowhere, but there's a few weeks before the test day and I bet we see a lot closer pace by the time Le Mans week comes around.

[chernaudi]

Not to be a fear monger, but it's for sure not clear sailing for LMP1 unless you're Toyota and Rebellion for LM plans right now.

In addition to Ginetta/Manor's unknown future, both BR Dallaras that wrecked at Spa may be write offs and there's currently no spare tubs for the cars as of this weekend.

[Mike E]

I see the #8 inherited the #7's bonus point for pole position as well.

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I see the #8 inherited the #7's bonus point for pole position as well.

*Cough* Fix *Cough*

[MaskedRacer]

I think we know who the WEC Super Season champion is going to be in LMP1 already...ahem**Fermando**ahem.

Lets move on to a real battle in GTE now.

[Irie]

The reason is simple and not a conspiracy for Alonso to win the championship because the #7 was not in a legal technical state (because they posted the wrong part number) all lap times in qualy from #7 were deleted hence the fasted lap time in qualy was from #8.
http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...%20to%2015.pdf

[S griffin]

Yep rules are rules. The fact Fred benefited is irrelevant

[Truckosaurus]

I'm sure Toyota have enough clout to have lobbied to be given the benefit of the doubt for the minor typo on a serial number if they had really wanted the keep #7 on pole....

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

I'm sure Toyota have enough clout to have lobbied to be given the benefit of the doubt for the minor typo on a serial number if they had really wanted the keep #7 on pole....

Apparently they don't. Good news!

[chernaudi]

Anyone think that we could see some EOT changes? I'd argue that EOT from the Prologue might have been spot on given Toyota's claims of the privateers being as fast as them in private testing.

But who knows what the ACO might do.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

I'm sure Toyota have enough clout to have lobbied to be given the benefit of the doubt for the minor typo on a serial number if they had really wanted the keep #7 on pole....

I think that's a great reason why the rules are enforced so. What if Rebellion was to use their clout to sway the plank wear decision? Goes both ways. How about the 250k fine to Michelin who supplies 90% of the teams? If you set a precedent for lobbying against punishment then who needs rules?

[chernaudi]

IMO, the Michelin deal is kinda stupid given that the WEC is technically an open tire formula. But as far as technical regs, those rules should be enforced unless force majure can be shown as just cause for the infringement.

[RedSquirrel]

The rule is probably in place to prevent a situation where a tyre company has committed to supplying to so many teams that they can't provide enough tyres. I've no problem with the fine. Michelin simply over-extended themselves.

[S griffin]

It makes you wonder if it’s worth it supplying all those teams. Weird they just got a fine though

[TF110]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

The rule is probably in place to prevent a situation where a tyre company has committed to supplying to so many teams that they can't provide enough tyres. I've no problem with the fine. Michelin simply over-extended themselves.

Was it that or was it something like having a different new spec tire provided to a team that might give someone an unfair advantage?

[S griffin]

Who knows? Rules can be complicated at times

[Adam43]

The rule is there to police the tyre development restriction rules in place. The devepment rule was announced late last year IIRC. It is not there to prove enough tyres can be made.

Here gives an idea of the process
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...ing-tyre-rules

The idea is the ACO have enough tyres early on that can be used later in the season. They use these in later races.

[chernaudi]

If the rule is there to police tire development (in ironically an allegedly open tire formula), why not go to a spec tire? You only have three teams right now on Dunlops in the season anyways, so it'd seem that a spec tire would be what the ACO would want.

You ask me, as far as LMP1 at least (and maybe LMP2 and GT), it's to limit how much of an edge someone can get though confidential tires. For example, TMG and Rebellion are both on Michelin in LMP1, and it's supposed to ensure that Toyota shouldn't get a huge advantage later this year just because they have their own spec of tire.

But as I asked, if that's what the ACO's endgame is, why not request a spec tire?

[S griffin]

It’s weird how they’re policing an open tyre formula. As you said why not go spec tyre? There’s little point of anyone being on Dunlops. Really the ACO might need a rethink

[chernaudi]

Also if the goal is to have Toyota have a .5 of a second a lap advantage around Le Mans, it's easy to say that we're quite a ways away from that given that most everyone was at least a second off in terms of ultimate pace at Spa. And given that if you're 1-1.5 seconds off around Spa (about half the length of Le Mans), that could easily be 2-3 seconds around LM, though not always (such as 2008 when Audi were on Peugeot's pace at Spa, but where much slower around LM relative to Peugeot).

Maybe the Prologue EOT was right, and the ACO have said that they do reserve the right to revisit those figures as they see fit. Maybe we'll see by the LM test day or race week if they put the words to action.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It’s weird how they’re policing an open tyre formula. As you said why not go spec tyre? There’s little point of anyone being on Dunlops. Really the ACO might need a rethink

I reckon the idea is that different Michelin teams get the same treatment from Michelin. And the same goes for Dunlop. Not sure what a spec tyre has to do with this?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It’s weird how they’re policing an open tyre formula. As you said why not go spec tyre? There’s little point of anyone being on Dunlops. Really the ACO might need a rethink

Same reason as the tyres are policed at the N24. Costs get out of hand REALLY quickly when Michelin start building manufacturer, and even team specific tyres.

ADAC way of dealing with it was saying that Michelin (or anyone else) could build whatever special expensive super tyre they wanted. But they had to make it available to every team. Stopped the silliness pretty quickly. And caused some teams to switch tyres during the weekend, which was kinda fun and almost old school to see.

[Adam43]

I wondered how they would enforce the three compound rule when it was announced. I thought this was quite an interesting solution.

I wonder whether a tyre stored in this method will have a different performance to one newly manufacturered even if to the same original standard.

[Akrapovic]

I believe the oils in the tyres do go off after some time. I think this has been an issue in IMSA with Continental using old tyres at times.