Driver Vettel vs Webber: Round 2 - Page 66

rocketracer · 25 Oct 2010, 04:10 (Ref:2779984)

webber is the driver whose results i follow most closely in the current f1 field, however i dont want him to win a title if it's gifted to him by team orders.

All through his career he's not had anything gifted to him that he hasnt had to work (extra) hard to get. And he's been vocal in pointing it out in the past, it's what he prides himself on, and what really motivates him. So it would be a tragedy if the crowning moment of his career came from that which he had fought against, and strived to overcome - to win due to favouritism rather than talent.

I want him to win the title because he beats all comers on the racetrack. That is what was great about his earlier season results, and what has put him in this position in the first place. It is what has endeared people to his championship cause. His drives in spain, monaco, hungary and silverstone came as a suprise to most that he really was capable of beating the crop of very highly rated current f1 drivers on merit, and merit alone.

He genuinely has the potential to win the next race in particular, and abu dhabi after that, regardless of whether vettel is prepared to flatter his results or not. And that will determine whether he's champion.

AUSRSR · 25 Oct 2010, 04:28 (Ref:2779985)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketracer

webber is the driver whose results i follow most closely in the current f1 field, however i dont want him to win a title if it's gifted to him by team orders.

All through his career he's not had anything gifted to him that he hasnt had to work (extra) hard to get. And he's been vocal in pointing it out in the past, it's what he prides himself on, and what really motivates him. So it would be a tragedy if the crowning moment of his career came from that which he had fought against, and strived to overcome - to win due to favouritism rather than talent.

I want him to win the title because he beats all comers on the racetrack. That is what was great about his earlier season results, and what has put him in this position in the first place. It is what has endeared people to his championship cause. His drives in spain, monaco, hungary and silverstone came as a suprise to most that he really was capable of beating the crop of very highly rated current f1 drivers on merit, and merit alone.

He genuinely has the potential to win the next race in particular, and abu dhabi after that, regardless of whether vettel is prepared to flatter his results or not. And that will determine whether he's champion.

Couldn't agree more. He's had it pretty tough all along, so he'll have to dig deep for that fighting spirit. A come from behind victory would be much sweeter anyway..

Regarding his off, I think that could have been absolutely anyone out there..Besides, Fernando binned it in Belgium in the wet..

Trev Campbell · 25 Oct 2010, 04:58 (Ref:2779989)

If Alonso wins the title by less than 7 points do you think he'll think less of himself for having team orders work in his favor. I think he'll be thanking his team. The only thing that matters now is winning. I say fight fire with fire.

deeks6 · 25 Oct 2010, 05:51 (Ref:2779997)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

If Alonso wins the title by less than 7 points do you think he'll think less of himself for having team orders work in his favor. I think he'll be thanking his team. The only thing that matters now is winning. I say fight fire with fire.

Took the words out of my mouth ... all this "glorious valour" crap is dreaming ... Ferrari know how the game is played and have thrown their cards squarely on the table. FA already has banked 7 points that he should not have (and bet your life that there will be more to follow if need be). If RBR do not follow suit (excuse the pun), they are crazy! Loyalty to their favourite boy is OK but when they have to know when to throw the towel in too. And (Trust me), Mark Webber will be just as happy to take it that way too. They could have wrapped up the drivers title for Webber if they had played this card earlier and hats off to them for not doing it. But the time hath cometh.

p.s. and its only a $100 grand even if you make it obvious!

Mr V · 25 Oct 2010, 06:04 (Ref:2780003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus

Knowlsey's joke

Mr.V's head

Nope, sorry, you've lost me!

mac · 25 Oct 2010, 06:04 (Ref:2780005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketracer

webber is the driver whose results i follow most closely in the current f1 field, however i dont want him to win a title if it's gifted to him by team orders.

To some extent I agree... However, if he was to be the beneficiary of team orders, it would be because he has earned it throughout the season and put himself in that position.

From Red Bull's point of view I would have thought that their first priority would be to win the championship... And if they truly were not biased, they would not care who was in the driver's seat.

Mr V · 25 Oct 2010, 06:13 (Ref:2780008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

I think this just proves the team bias toward Vettel, They are giving him every opportunity to win the (Now fairly unrealistic) title, at the expense of Webber.

I think that Red Bull feel obligated to Seb due to the poor reliability he's had in comparison to his team mate this season. Take yesterday as an example, he should have been 11 points ahead of Mark, but through no fault of his own, he isn't. Add to that the spark plug in Bahrain, "wheel issue" in Australia, Brake problem in Spain, radio problem in Hungary (which apparently lead to him dropping back, though i'm still convinced that he was playing the team game and it back fired), none of these problem's, Mark has had, yet Seb is still in with a shot, thats why, imo, they want to give Seb every oppotunity.

rocketracer · 25 Oct 2010, 07:23 (Ref:2780033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

Took the words out of my mouth ... all this "glorious valour" crap is dreaming ...

forget "glorious valour", i'm talking about the realistic situation that mark webber finds himself in.

his best chance to win the championship is to win at brazil next weekend, and then stay ahead of alonso in abu dhabi. The team have constantly stated that whilst both drivers have a chance of winning the title, they are open to race. So it's not like he's been deceived into thinking he was in the same situation as alonso at ferrari. Thus, his only option is to be aggressive, and be faster than seb vettel on merit in brazil.

If he wants to win a title, it's definitely not going to be through a door held open by a smiling Helmut Marko and Seb Vettel!! and you think i'm dreaming!

wnut · 25 Oct 2010, 07:36 (Ref:2780045)

What is Horner meant to say?

"Yes of course Vettel will now support Webber!"

After all the fruit that has been thrown at Ferrari for a perfectly rational approach and a huge fine.

Just organise it and quietly deny it has been organised would seem to be the right approach. Webber to return the favour next year, complete no brainer. Its what they should have done in Singapore!

JackN · 25 Oct 2010, 10:04 (Ref:2780128)

Not sure if this is the best thread for this, but I was wondering whether Webber could have avoided the collision with Rosberg?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9121806.stm

At 1min10 the onboard video shows webber hit the wall, then continue retake the wheel only to turn it so he slides across the track. I realised his right front is damaged, but surely if he had turned the other way he would have avoided Rosberg?

I realise it all happens so quickly (although Mark said it happened in slow motion) and am not blaming him, I'm just surprised his instant reaction wasnt to steer away from oncoming cars.

Super Hans · 25 Oct 2010, 10:13 (Ref:2780135)

I'm not sure how possible it is to steer a three wheeled car that's rebounding backwards off the wall you've just hit.

strider · 25 Oct 2010, 12:21 (Ref:2780202)

Apparently Rosberg tweeted that Webber should have braked and not allowed the car to keep rolling. Tweets are now the means by which drivers make their opinions known away from the team's hovering Press/PR person.

Super Hans · 25 Oct 2010, 12:26 (Ref:2780206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Apparently Rosberg tweeted that Webber should have braked and not allowed the car to keep rolling. Tweets are now the means by which drivers make their opinions known away from the team's hovering Press/PR person.

I'd imagine that a driver's natural reaction would be to get off the track and onto the grassy area, as opposed to sitting in the middle of the track next to a wall.

Webber dropped it, no doubt. But what happened afterwards was just one of those things.

**chunterer** · 25 Oct 2010, 14:42 (Ref:2780250)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Apparently Rosberg tweeted that Webber should have braked and not allowed the car to keep rolling. Tweets are now the means by which drivers make their opinions known away from the team's hovering Press/PR person.

He wouldn't have thought it was Hamilton he might have rolled into and not Rosberg would it?

**Bononi** · 25 Oct 2010, 17:07 (Ref:2780301)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Apparently Rosberg tweeted that Webber should have braked and not allowed the car to keep rolling. Tweets are now the means by which drivers make their opinions known away from the team's hovering Press/PR person.

And tweets are also showing how the sportsmen using them are mostly muscles than brain...

mac · 25 Oct 2010, 22:37 (Ref:2780471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I'd imagine that a driver's natural reaction would be to get off the track and onto the grassy area, as opposed to sitting in the middle of the track next to a wall.

Webber dropped it, no doubt. But what happened afterwards was just one of those things.

Exactly. Seemed like he was keeping it rolling to get it off the circuit ASAP - unfortunately Nico chose the wrong side.

**gomick** · 26 Oct 2010, 09:42 (Ref:2780669)

Sao Paolo - Webber must win, again!

E.B · 26 Oct 2010, 13:45 (Ref:2780758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomick

Sao Paolo - Webber must win, again!

I feel that to do that will need Vettels 100% support, and a touch of team orders.....

I see even the Red Bull allies are treating Marks slithering aross the track as a bit naughty....

Berger thinks Webber tried to wipe out rivals after crash

wnut · 26 Oct 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2780915)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

I feel that to do that will need Vettels 100% support, and a touch of team orders.....

I see even the Red Bull allies are treating Marks slithering aross the track as a bit naughty....

Berger thinks Webber tried to wipe out rivals after crash

This is just complete rubbish! No driver would deliberately expose himself to the possibility of being T-boned at high speed!
You could very easily have a repeat of Zanardi's horrible accident at Lausitzring in 2001. Unbelievable that Berger could even think this rubbish, let alone put his name to it !

OZ_HCR32 · 26 Oct 2010, 21:46 (Ref:2780920)

Agree with wnut. To accuse any driver that they intentionally put their car sideways in the middle of a track in front of on coming cars at speed in wet conditions meaning they wont have slowed down combined with will have been slower then usual to pick them up due to spray etc.....come on. There is more to life then a car race and I am sure no driver wants a nosecone into the side of their head after a car launches over the top of their sidepod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ralf's Girl · 27 Oct 2010, 09:09 (Ref:2781065)

I doubt Webber was trying to take anyone out deliberately, but I don't think he would have been too upset had it been one of his title rivals who collected his accident...

Super Hans · 27 Oct 2010, 10:04 (Ref:2781080)

Joe Saward gives Berger's suggestion short shrift.

Quote:

The suggestion made by Gerhard Berger that Mark Webber was trying to take out one of his World Championship rivals as his crashed Red Bull bounced off the wall in the wet in Korea is, frankly, a ridiculous claim and does not warrant any serious reporting.

More here

stripedcat · 27 Oct 2010, 10:47 (Ref:2781092)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Joe Saward gives Berger's suggestion short shrift.

Yeah it is a case of "go and have a lie down Gerhard.".

Camaroz · 27 Oct 2010, 10:49 (Ref:2781093)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I think that Red Bull feel obligated to Seb due to the poor reliability he's had in comparison to his team mate this season. Take yesterday as an example, he should have been 11 points ahead of Mark, but through no fault of his own, he isn't. Add to that the spark plug in Bahrain, "wheel issue" in Australia, Brake problem in Spain, radio problem in Hungary (which apparently lead to him dropping back, though i'm still convinced that he was playing the team game and it back fired), none of these problem's, Mark has had, yet Seb is still in with a shot, thats why, imo, they want to give Seb every oppotunity.

Poor reliability?

How about Vet uses more car than Webber, therfore bringing "reliability" back on himself? (save for the radio thing but his radio seemed to work OK in Turkey!). Marko is the "snake in the grass". Who is Vet's Manager?

E.B · 27 Oct 2010, 10:57 (Ref:2781097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Who is Vet's Manager?

I think Seb is one of the few drivers who have no Manager. He has always handled his own career, I guess with advice from Father / family etc.

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