The merged Merger thread (again !!) - Page 7

luke · 7 Apr 2006, 11:18 (Ref:1573001)

Well I don't know what your on about, but as I said, I'm pretty sure I saw that figure on the St.Pete broadcast if your that certain it isn't indycool and someone made that up at an anti IRL forum then go watch the broadcast again. If that is the same figure indycool then that likely isn't a joke.

indycool · 7 Apr 2006, 12:23 (Ref:1573057)

Get real, Luke. Every story I read on newspaper websites after the race estimated whatever they estimated and some reported that the attendance figure wasn't announced. I don't have a tape of the broadcast, so, no, I can't say for sure, but that photoshopped picture of the graphic was discussed on two other forums that I know of and perhaps more.

Answer your own question: Wouldn't you think, if somebody with the track, sanctioning body or network came up with a number like that, more than the Indianapolis 500, etc., so WAY FAR out of hand as it is, that it wouldn't be challenged and laughed at and ridiculed EVERYWHERE, on EVERY forum, by EVERY news media outlet? Do some thinkin'.

luke · 7 Apr 2006, 12:28 (Ref:1573060)

Remember I said weekend attendance. Not race attendance which is what the Indy 500 is roughly the same. Well I'm pretty certain I saw that number, and it was that high and pretty sure was made up that's why I remember it and found it hard to believe they had that figure as their weekend attendance as to me they looked to have less people in the stands and around the race track then the Champ Car race despite giving out free tickets and if it is the same figure that according to you has been photo shopped I would say the figure hasn't been changed if its the same. Indy cool you don't really have a right to try and say I'm wrong until you actually check out for yourself the race footage if your so certain your right until then either take my word for it or as usual think I'm wrong.
I don't really want to spend the afternoon going off topic and trying to tell you something you won't accept or take my word for.

indycool · 7 Apr 2006, 13:09 (Ref:1573094)

No, I won't accept and take your word for it. Read this thread:

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73374

Seoigh · 7 Apr 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1573099)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's been interesting reading the past few pages. I would agree that 'looking to the future' is all well and good, but I don't buy into whitewashing the past. If one looks at the stated original objectives of the IRL nothing has been accomplished and the split was all for nothing. Someone needs to answer for all the havoc that has been wreaked the past 15 years.

I'm basing that point of view on my own personal relationships. Anytime I've had a problem with someone I find talking through our problem(s) and working it out helps us move forward, but if you act like nothing every happened, those same issues that plagued you once before will rise again. If you look at all of the anger and resentment that has been stirred up over the past 10 years, I think you're a fool if you don't want to find a way of working through those issues so we can move forward.

On a side note I thought I remember hearing St. Pete took a $6 million dollar loss last year. Also interesting to see the IRL crowd clinging to 'street parades' as their savior and while ripping champcar events like denver and san jose, pump up st. pete as some wonder event.

rustyfan- true that street courses are lined with concrete barriers, but most like Denver, Long Beach, Surfers and Adelaide have a much more pleasant backdrop than some concrete bowl out in the middle of Alabama. That I can tell you from my personal experience, but to each his own.

Mountainstar - I find your comments in this more recent post much more rational; attribute earlier comments to mutual misunderstanding. That said, we can address your points as follow:

1. I too remember being quite miffed when the split was perpetrated - yes, by TG, but one must acknowledge the chest thumping by CART which might justify such action in the mind of the IMS owner. I attended the first IRL event at Disney World, and found it 'Mickey Mouse' in many respects.
2. St. Pete DID, in fact, lose money during it's first IRL event (what street race hasn't?)...the promotors did not hide this, and something on the order of a $2-3 million loss was reported.
3. THIS year's event appears much rosier from a financial perspective, with a 'wash' possible, and profit even likely. Even the St. Pete Times (no fan of business interests - known as St.Pete PRAVDA in some circles) has raved about the event and it's positive impact on the community's image...and finances, AND they have lauded the promotor's relationship with the city.
4. St. Pete must be classed as one of the prettiest venues in the world - I haven't heard anyone dispute this. Having marshalled at Monaco (the nicest, but dreadful racing), Long Beach (the worst), and Denver in the past, I have to agree.

Nobody disputes the benefit of a reunion any longer - I feel we really need to put the past where it belongs...and leave it there. I, like others, dream of the day that the top OW series in the US is the envy of the world.

luke · 7 Apr 2006, 13:27 (Ref:1573104)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

No, I won't accept and take your word for it. Read this thread:

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73374

What a suprise its, 375,000, and only 5000 off from the memory proving I didn't imagine it from the broadcast. And indycool all I can say is grow up, its not a photoshop, I remember it was 370,000 well I was wrong it was 375,000. I can promise you I didn't imagine it so if you still don't beleive me which you won't you either try and watch the broadcast again which will be 100% accurate and prove to you that's what it had. WATCH THE BROADCAST AGAIN! If you don't then there is no other way to prove to you and it will just mean you don't want to swallow your pride. Don't say I'm wrong again, you either watch it and find out for yourself or you take my word for it which you won't. Now there is nothing more for me to add on this off topic subject. I will only talk merger from now on. Can a mod please clear up this thread of these stupid posts?

indycool · 7 Apr 2006, 13:36 (Ref:1573111)

"Swallow my pride?" Oh, baloney. If you read the thread, the original poster ADMITTED it was a photoshop.

A little bit of a clue is it's the last line of a PRE-RACE graphic. When have you EVER seen, on a telecast, an "estimated weekend attendance" on a PRE-RACE graphic?

You go watch the broadcast again if you like.

luke · 7 Apr 2006, 13:42 (Ref:1573115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

"Swallow my pride?" Oh, baloney. If you read the thread, the original poster ADMITTED it was a photoshop.

A little bit of a clue is it's the last line of a PRE-RACE graphic. When have you EVER seen, on a telecast, an "estimated weekend attendance" on a PRE-RACE graphic?

You go watch the broadcast again if you like.

Quote from 'original poster'

Quote:

If its a photoshop, then the orginal poster of it made it and I stand corrected.

Hardly 'admiting'

What gives you the idea its a pre race graphic?

So indycool if your certain this is a photoshop and I'm wrong why don't you actually watch the race broadcast again if you still don't want to it means you know I'm right. Its the only way you know for sure, else your relying on trackforum posts which are highly unreliable.

paul-collins · 7 Apr 2006, 13:43 (Ref:1573117)

I think this particular bit of discussion is irrelevant to the task at hand. Whatever the attendance at St Petes, the race's viability will be determined by those who have the facts. AKA the principals in this meeting of minds, not us.

If the IRL was trying to make hay out of the health of St Petes, the attendance figure would be in newspaper reports. It's not, as far as I can see, so whether the graphic is real or faked, it hasn't propogated. (And as IC noted, the original poster of the graphic said it was photoshopped anyway.)

Let's try to stay on the discussion of what works from the perspective of the merger.

indycool · 7 Apr 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1573123)

Geez, what paul said.............I've never been involved in a more ridiculous Twlight Zone discussion on this board.

okeefe · 7 Apr 2006, 14:47 (Ref:1573184)

Alrighty then, and good morning all!

Does anyone have a link to the Vasser quote about the merger - man, I love Vasser.......but can't find his quote and I forget where I read it.

indycool · 7 Apr 2006, 14:52 (Ref:1573188)

Don't know about earlier ones, but here's the latest of what he's had to say...sounds like he wants to run Indy again before retiring.....

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...604070472/1052

Seoigh · 7 Apr 2006, 15:02 (Ref:1573198)

Guys...GUYS!

Play nice...aren't we supposed to prevent this from degenerating into a personal mud-slinging contest...or the mod will 'assist' us in doing so?

Can we please adhere to the merits of a possible merger...data and news related thereto, even on-topic gossip?? (especially gossip?)

Thanks to one and all.

luke · 7 Apr 2006, 15:07 (Ref:1573206)

Quote:

In Bourdais' opinion, if the talks between Kalkhoven and George break off again, every driver in open-wheel racing could be looking for another job next season.

Wow it must be that bad.

Quote:

"I think what we'd all like to see is Kevin and Tony standing together on the front straightaway next month at (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) saying, 'We're doing this. Details to follow.' "

Wow.

Thanks for the link interesting read.

marcus · 7 Apr 2006, 16:12 (Ref:1573258)

exactly , I agree with what Paul said and if it doesnt stop I will close the thread and hand out some warnings.

Im getting fed up with quite a few forums on here at present !!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronbo · 10 Apr 2006, 06:11 (Ref:1575198)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

1. Link, please, from a reasonable source that St. Petersburg lost $6 million in '05.
2. Link, please, from a reasonable source where anyone said St. Pete had 370,000 weekend attendance.

Links won't matter to you anyway! If you don't like the link, you just attack the messenger. Or you change the subject! Here is a quote about tickets at the 500,

OTHER INDY STUFF

Want a ticket for this year's Indy 500? There are plenty at Brickyard.com, including 118 together in South Vista, 116 together in Grandstand H, 100 together in North Vista and 92 together in Tower Terrace. And EBay has hundreds of good seats available also.

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/16457/

That is from last year, but my point is made! The link and story are valid, but are from the last race.

You always ask for links, but don't respond to them when they are given, so why ask for them? When I have asked for links for the stuff you are saying, my requests are ignored.

Are you still paid by the irl?

paul-collins · 10 Apr 2006, 13:08 (Ref:1577572)

Ronbo, we've moved on. You should too.

Fogelhund · 10 Apr 2006, 18:48 (Ref:1577879)

Repeated from Champcar forum

Honda to enter ALMS.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60409001/1001

Add up the numbers. Honda has repeatedly stated that they want competition. Without merger, there is no competition. Without merger, I'll speculate there is no Honda in US Open Wheel. Stay tuned for more details as they become available, at the official press conference.

Snips1 · 10 Apr 2006, 20:59 (Ref:1577993)

Interesting with the Honda rumour...

But remember they signed a contract with the IRL unbtil 2009, so they have a couple of years left on that one, unless they have some sort of clause in it...

Does this mean Andretti or Rahal will be full-time in ALMS (NO IRL( in 2007??

paul-collins · 10 Apr 2006, 21:20 (Ref:1578016)

The official announcement "will come Wednesday, April 12 at the New York auto show." Beyond that it's anyone's guess...

mountainstar · 11 Apr 2006, 04:49 (Ref:1578213)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snips1

Interesting with the Honda rumour...

But remember they signed a contract with the IRL unbtil 2009, so they have a couple of years left on that one, unless they have some sort of clause in it...

Does this mean Andretti or Rahal will be full-time in ALMS (NO IRL( in 2007??

I'm sure there are clauses, what they are who knows except that the head of hondas racing division is not pleased with the current situation.

There were and are a lot of rumors floating around and usually where there is smoke there is fire. I remember a lot of people dissing the Honda ALMS rumour last year and that now looks to be true. Rahal, Andretti and Ganassi are carpetbaggers, they are going to go where the money is and if there is cash on offer to run a nice program in the ALMS to compete against the bad dog Porsche Penske, they're gonna take it.

One has to wonder about the meeting with Carl Russo, Kalkoven, Robert Clarke, Ganassi, Rahal and Andretti. Surely there is more to that.

climb · 11 Apr 2006, 06:33 (Ref:1578255)

Well let me say I'd be surprised if all this happened: if IRL and CC are on life support, ALMS ain't no healthier for sure: they currently appear to be a lost bet, compared with the bullish trend of Grand-Am.

I think they'll look for competition in the unified CC-IRL series, with Honda vs (ex-cosworth-chevy)Ford aspirated engine.

luke · 11 Apr 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1578450)

The ALMS needs what it can get after the Le Mans Series was created in 2004 imo.

Fogelhund · 11 Apr 2006, 19:56 (Ref:1578796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

Well let me say I'd be surprised if all this happened: if IRL and CC are on life support, ALMS ain't no healthier for sure: they currently appear to be a lost bet, compared with the bullish trend of Grand-Am.

This isn't really the place to argue this, but with ten seperate factory backed manufacturers in the ALMS, it is hardly in poor shape from a support level. The entry level is a bit low historically, but will trend towards the mid thirties by year end, and towards forty next year.

By the way, this Honda story is not a rumour, and there is much more to it.

racer69 · 13 Apr 2006, 07:36 (Ref:1580110)

I was interested by one of David Phillips' commentaries on SpeedTV. He mentions things that are going to have to give in a merger, namely engines and chassis.

Surely any merged series won't be a spec series, in Chassis or Engine?

And for that matter what about some of the racing rules;

eg...the two rules in ChampCar which currently grate me personally, the 'no defending position rule' and the 'Push - to - pass button'.

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