[BTCC] Round Seven, Silverstone 25-26 Sep, Races 22,23&24

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by HopAlong

So the Infiniti has 21 top 5's this year, BMW have 23 and Honda have 33. over the last 2 seasons the Infiniti has scored 21 podiums compared to the 34 of BMW, 40 of Honda, and 20 for Ford.

Its hilarious how Ingram can get 9 podiums in 15 races or Cook and Butcher winning on max ballast and its all "what a good job", Sutton spends the season constantly around 5th place with the odd win and its "cheating/dominance/the car needs to be pegged back/something fishy going on".

Just a few points from your post the Infiniti scoring 21 top 5’s is pretty good thinking it’s from only two cars when Honda and bmw have more cars capable of scoring the top 5’s.
I’m guessing you must be talking about a different season with Ingram and his 9 podiums in 15 races
your point of Sutton getting the odd win well he’s won more races (4) this year than anyone else and scores the most podiums (8) jointly with hill this year and had more top 5’s than anyone this year so I would say he’s definitely dominating the championship because he’s the best driver on the grid

[S griffin]

For me I don't get how some people refuse to see the Sutton factor. For me it was the same with the whole FWD/RWD arguments we've had on here. Just seems some people are not happy with certain people winning or that their favourite driver/team is not winning, so there must be something wrong.

Me, I'm too busy enjoying the series to really care about who wins or not. For sure it would be nice if it was a little closer in the title race, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by S griffin

For me I don't get how some people refuse to see the Sutton factor. For me it was the same with the whole FWD/RWD arguments we've had on here. Just seems some people are not happy with certain people winning or that their favourite driver/team is not winning, so there must be something wrong.

Me, I'm too busy enjoying the series to really care about who wins or not. For sure it would be nice if it was a little closer in the title race, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it

Exactly. Races are still exciting, Sutton doesn't win at least one race of every weekend, there are some interesting storylines across the whole season. Can we ask for more?

It's obvious not every title can be won in the very last race of the season and it's good - otherwise we'd take it for granted. Also, I can't understand why so many people want the best team-car-driver combinations being punished for being the best.

It's also exciting part of the sport that there are different cars, engines, every team has their engineers with all teams trying to make the best job possible to come out victorious on Sunday. Would be boring if there was no engineering side of the sport and everyone raced exactly the same car, prepared by the same organisation.

At the end of the day, the differences are nowhere near as huge as in F1, a lot of teams may enjoy wins/podiums/Top 10s etc and that's the most important. I wouldn't like BTCC to be so hampered by all 'parity measures' that results seem completely random. What's exciting in random results? What's exciting in knowing that best teams are pegged back because of being best? Where's the sense of achievement for drivers who beat cars that are 100kg heavier? Entertainment is one thing but a random game is another.

[James Kaye]

Sutton is the best young British touring car driver I've seen since James Thompson.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by James Kaye

Sutton is the best young British touring car driver I've seen since James Thompson.

That's quite the compliment, coming from you James. You've seen a lot more drivers rather more closely than almost any of us on Tenths, so I would expect you to be a far better judge of character than we are!

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by James Kaye

Sutton is the best young British touring car driver I've seen since James Thompson.

How young is young James? Great to have you on here btw, you won the Total Cup for privateers the first year I started watching the BTCC

[BTCC frog]

Thanks for your input, James. It’s always great when a BTCC driver comes on here! I think the Infiniti is almost certainly the quickest car, as shown by Moffat’s sixth in the championship (followed by the Ford), but the difference is exaggerated by the fact that Sutton is clearly the class of the field. As I said in my GOAT list, I think that, by the time he retires, Sutton will be considered the undisputed greatest BTCC driver of all time.

The reason for the equality in the BTCC is nothing to do with schools teaching about taking part. It is purely down to Alan Gow wanting the championship to be as exciting as possible. The BTCC is less of a sport, and more entertainment, than most motorsports, but that is fine as it is different. As long as Formula 1 never gets polluted with the likes of reversed grids, I don’t mind what the BTCC does. But on this occasion, it is clear that Sutton and BMR have just outclassed the opposition and deserve the title. Maybe it will be made tougher for them next year, but this year we just have to recognise that they deserve their superiority.

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by S griffin

How young is young James? Great to have you on here btw, you won the Total Cup for privateers the first year I started watching the BTCC

92 or 94 out of interest? 92 was the first review I ever managed to get on tape sent to me when I lived in Murate, Zimbabwe (Umtali, Rhodesia)

Good days

[thetool]

Originally Posted by James Kaye

Sutton is the best young British touring car driver I've seen since James Thompson.

A more productive temperament too. Thommo had a tendency of getting embroiled in a few too many spats on & off the track.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

92 or 94 out of interest? 92 was the first review I ever managed to get on tape sent to me when I lived in Murate, Zimbabwe (Umtali, Rhodesia)

Good days

94. That was the first year it was the Total Cup

[ScottS]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the Pitch BTCC video, episode 7 has a very clear video of the Rory and Tom overtake that was questionable weather it was a yellow flag or not at about 31 minutes in.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by ScottS

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the Pitch BTCC video, episode 7 has a very clear video of the Rory and Tom overtake that was questionable weather it was a yellow flag or not at about 31 minutes in.

Luckily TOCA have more to work with than Pitch TV

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ScottS

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the Pitch BTCC video, episode 7 has a very clear video of the Rory and Tom overtake that was questionable weather it was a yellow flag or not at about 31 minutes in.

I think it came down to the difference between "seeing a yellow flag" and "being in the yellow flag zone" - if I was Ingram I'd be annoyed that the result stood - he's effectively been penalised for erring on the side of caution with regards to a yellow flag.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I think it came down to the difference between "seeing a yellow flag" and "being in the yellow flag zone" - if I was Ingram I'd be annoyed that the result stood - he's effectively been penalised for erring on the side of caution with regards to a yellow flag.

I can understand - and would agree with the frustration.

However - if all drivers know that you don't overtake until you pass a green flag, then it should also follow that you can overtake up to the point you pass a yellow flag.

The Blue Book says - 'Not slowing down or overtaking is an offence from
wherever Yellow flags are displayed until the Green flag is
passed.' and we have heard on many occasions in commentary that the field 'races until they get to the first SC board'.

[S griffin]

It's not exactly black and white is it? Hopefully clarity has been achieved on this, but let's hope we don't see more controversies like that

[yellowbeard]

The way I see it is that the pass was legal but extremely ungentlemanly, if I was on the grid I wouldn't be doing him any favours on track in future

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by yellowbeard

The way I see it is that the pass was legal but extremely ungentlemanly, if I was on the grid I wouldn't be doing him any favours on track in future

I don't think Butcher even saw the yellow flag. He seemed quite shocked when Ingram said there was one out in the post race interview.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's not exactly black and white is it?

It seems very black and white (or yellow) - overtaking is not permitted from the point you pass a yellow flag until the point you pass a green flag.

Butcher and Ingram had not passed the yellow flag when the overtake was made, so no regulations were breached.

I wouldn't even call it ungentlemanly - it's a sport, and if another driver makes a mistake in their understanding of the regulations that is their issue.

[peebee2]

Any racing driver who lifts in a race before he gets to the actual point on the track where a yellow is displayed is a total numpty who shouldn’t have a licence, as he clearly doesn’t know the rules.

[Matt K]

I wouldn't be so harsh about Ingram but if rules are clear about waving yellow flag being sort of a 'border' than just seeing it in the distance doesn't mean a driver is already in the zone. Same with Safety Car. I feel sorry for Ingram but don't think Butcher was wrong.