The Rain Light & MSA Rant Thread

[refoman2]

lets be honest the msa have been fleecing us for years with our licences!£72 this year for a bit of plastic,sorry but what are we getting for this amount of money?
an organisation who changes rules and regs at will to suit whoever has backhanded them that year!happened for years in karting with various add on exhaust bits,something different every year!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I would imagine a five minute meeting at their headquarters followed by a five minute update on their website would put the matter to rest one way or the other, why do they have to complicate things. Bottom line is surely we go by whats in the 2008 Blue Book mistake or not you would read it, act on it end of story why would you bother to investigate further, I think if its a mistake its their printing error so surely as they have gone to press it will have to stay like that for 2008.

Nah, they would just add a bit of paper saying erratum or whatever the Latin for **** up is and put a line in Motorsports now saying "Sorry, LEDs it is. Please blame that scrutineer bloke on 10-10ths"

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Nah, they would just add a bit of paper saying erratum or whatever the Latin for **** up is and put a line in Motorsports now saying "Sorry, LEDs it is. Please blame that scrutineer bloke on 10-10ths"

Thanks

lets be honest the msa have been fleecing us for years with our licences!£72 this year for a bit of plastic,sorry but what are we getting for this amount of money?
an organisation who changes rules and regs at will to suit whoever has backhanded them that year!happened for years in karting with various add on exhaust bits,something different every year!

I think we need to be careful what is claimed without proof as im sure that those in the MSA do read posts here and making this type of unsubstantiated allegation could cause a lot of problems.

I thought that all new regs were put through a committee which has drivers and officials on the board, which is why certain rules such as roll cages and belts don’t apply to ‘historic’ cars but that’s for a completely different thread.

[terence]

Like £152 for a International "C" you mean?

[refoman2]

maybe scrutineer if the proposed rule changes were banded around all members,being as we are members,instead of being forced on us then maybe,just maybe people wouldnt think the msa is a bottomless pit for our hard earned cash!!

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by refoman2

maybe scrutineer if the proposed rule changes were banded around all members,being as we are members,instead of being forced on us then maybe,just maybe people wouldnt think the msa is a bottomless pit for our hard earned cash!!

Which rule change is that then?? Havent we decided that there has been no change?
And they are banded around, they are published before going to the MSA council just because you dont all read them that aint there fault, lets face it how many of you read the blue book. There is even an avitar about 4 posts up whos roll hoop doesnt look like it is conforming

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

There is even an avitar about 4 posts up whos roll hoop doesnt look like it is conforming

Oi, don't bring me into this.
BTW, it does conform unless you are a scrutineer for the AMOC.

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by refoman2

lets be honest the msa have been fleecing us for years with our licences!£72 this year for a bit of plastic,sorry but what are we getting for this amount of money?

Well for £72 you get
1, Your plastic card
2, Your paper bit
3, The blue book (about £25 this year)
4, Insurance
5, Pays for marshals training
6, And you can call them 5 days a week (apart from the licencing dept last year )
What more do you want, a lap dancer at ever meeting???

[refoman2]

insurance?for what?dont the circuits have to pay there own insurance premiums for each meeting?
does that mean then that if were insured by the msa that if you stick your car in the barriers you can claim off them? LMAO

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Oi, don't bring me into this.
BTW, it does conform unless you are a scrutineer for the AMOC.

Tim, your roll cage im sure does conform, apart from when you put the driver in so its more the driver that doesnt conform
Go to the link (pages 183 drawing 60(ii) and page 178 top of the page) http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/m...s%20Safety.pdf Dont worry I wont tell
And I dont think im old enough to be an AMOC scut

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by refoman2

insurance?for what?dont the circuits have to pay there own insurance premiums for each meeting?
does that mean then that if were insured by the msa that if you stick your car in the barriers you can claim off them? LMAO

You have shown in one quick post that you have still not even looked at your blue book, its all in there all you need to do is unwrap it would you like me to post a link for you?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

so its more the driver that doesnt conform
Go to the link (pages 183 drawing 60(ii) and page 178 top of the page) http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/m...s%20Safety.pdf Dont worry I wont tell
And I dont think im old enough to be an AMOC scut

They are both OK actually, well page 178 is and 183 depends where you measure it to.

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

They are both OK actually, well page 178 is and 183 depends where you measure it to.

The top of the engine as the body work offers no resistance. We will put it down to the angle of the photo

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

The top of the engine as the body work offers no resistance. We will put it down to the angle of the photo

Agreed with the top of the engine, but to be honest I have never measured it but I expect you are correct.
I do sit 2 inches below the hoop as I recessed the floor and removed my seat cushion to get my body lower to meet the regs and yes I do read the Blue book, well the bits I need to.

Now can we get back to rain lights please

[JimW]

Originally Posted by brickkicker

Well for £72 you get
5, Pays for marshals training

I think that comes mainly out of the fines paid by miscreants. (Not McLaren unfortunately, otherwise we could do it properly. In Dubai or somewhere similar rather than Donington in January!)

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

Insurance is typically funded by the entry fee. For 2008

National B including Truck Race £19.10
National A including Truck Race £21.80
(Per competitor taking part, per race.)

Regards

Jim

[Al Weyman]

If they got the McLaren money as members they would be paying us!

[scrutineer]

Quote from the blue book

67. In respect of any event or part of an event held
anywhere other than on a publicly adopted road, under
a Permit issued by the MSA, competitors will be
insured in respect of third party legal liability by the
MSA Master Policy.

[Al Weyman]

So whats the extra £35 we pay on our entry fee for, personal protection I assume and if so if we get hurt can we make a claim?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So whats the extra £35 we pay on our entry fee for, personal protection I assume and if so if we get hurt can we make a claim?

Yes you can as has been done on a couple of occasions that I have heard about.

[graham bahr]

rain lights?????????????

[Rod Birley]

I have just spoken to John Ryan at the MSA and he advises that the MSA are holding an executive committee meeting within the next two weeks to discuss this issue. It may be (his words) that for saloon cars this is deferred until 2009 . Either way, I was assured that clarification will be made public before Christmas.
I pointed out the case for road going cars which also used for racing. Would these LED lights be "road legal" as far as an MOT inspector is concerned.

[johnw]

Well done Rod

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

I pointed out the case for road going cars which also used for racing. Would these LED lights be "road legal" as far as an MOT inspector is concerned.

Good point

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So whats the extra £35 we pay on our entry fee for, personal protection I assume and if so if we get hurt can we make a claim?

From 2006 BB

Originally Posted by App W

The MSA effects Master Insurance Policies only in respect of public liability and personal accident risks and this cover applies to all events held under permit or for which an exemption for permit is granted.

So for race (and anything else off roads to which the RTAs relevant to third party insurance apply) there are two risks for which the MSA insurance covers you:

1. Public liability (A wheel comes off and bowls over a spectator)

2. Personal accident (Covers things such as death, disablement, loss of a limb.)

Cover under 1 seems pretty all-inclusive. Cover under 2 is pretty limited and you might be well advised to consider topping it up. (IMHO).

Regards

Jim