March 722 - 732 - 742 - 752

[driftwood]

maybe car should be 712m (#9) / 752 or 74B or 74b(712m#9 ) ??
with its full title we know its the same car with an ID crisis not 2 or 4 different cars as it can appear
a su know know allen u can take 712 fit panels and make it any model u like
only when u get yr wisbone to fit to a car do u then realise 712 bone doesnt fit 732 or 75b 77b car but tub/ naked car looks the same at 5 paces

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Dan - did you ask Kim where the 712M/742 thing went after him?

Allen

Sorry Allen, no, we got sidetracked into the B34D/772P/802and tyres issues! Next time.

However, OTOH wasn't it to Warren B?? Kim also mentioned in chatting Paul Gardner, wasn't him was it?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

... tub/ naked car looks the same at 5 paces

Not with what I've learnt in the last 24 hours about the slope at the front of the tub. I can now tell a 1971 tub from a 1972 tub from a 1973-74 tub and I even think I can tell a 77B/77P tub from a 1974. Well, I think I can...

You said that the 752, 762 and 772 had wider tubs but the 77B and 772P had the narrower tubs again. What about the 753, 763 and 773? And the 75B and 76B? Did they all keep the 712-based narrow tub?

Allen

[allenbrown]

... and what about the 1978 cars? What were they?

[Chris Townsend]

OK the Mather car being the ex Multiglide car poses a number of problems!

Let's start with what the Multiglide car really was...

It was a March 712M and it carried plate 712M-9.
However its identity is inseparable from the histories of 712M-10 and 11.

9 originally a works car for Niki Lauda, 10 and 11 for the Shell-Arnold team for Jean-Pierre Jarier and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud respectively. Then at Rouen [27.6.71] Lauda appears in a new car ‘built in four days’ [MN] and carrying the plate 712M-10. [MN 17.6.71 p. 22 reports that Ganley wrote off Lauda’s car in testing at Thruxton.] MN says that Jarier appeared in Lauda’s old car bearing the plate 712M-9. At Mantorp MN has Lauda back in 712M-9, though given Lauda’s status as works driver this may well have been the car debuted at Rouen. The March sales record has 9 sold to French hill-climber Gerard in 1972, but carrying the plate 712M-10. 712M-9 is noted by Adam Fairnington on the Mike Sullivan Racing car in British Atlantic in 1974, when raced by Alan Jones. (This car was also raced by Richard Robinson and John Sheldon). However! This car was noted by AS in 1974 as being ‘ex Colin Andrews’. Andrews used a 712M in British Atlantic noted several times as ‘ex Jaussaud’ by both MN and AS. Though Jaussaud ran 712M-10 [once] as well as 11, this suggests that this is the original Shell Arnold car [712M-11] carrying the plate from Lauda’s original car [9].

So the lineage on the cars looks like this: after 1971 11 carries 9; 9 carries 10; 10 probably carries 11. But in 1971 10 was originally 9 and the original 10 seems to have been scrapped.

Now throw this in...
Norman Dickson "74B" Oulton 26/5/75 described as ex Multiglide AS 29.5.75 p. 37. An ex Dickson March is for sale in A/S in 1976, up in Aberdeen...

[allenbrown]

Oh great, at least it's not complicated then...

Anyone got Norman Dickson's number? He was at the McFestival the other week wasn't he?

[Chris Townsend]

Just had a really nice email from Geoff Friswell about his March 73B

Turns out it was an ex works 732, chassis 3. Geoff still has the plate in his tool box. Thinks it might have been ex Jarier, but interestingly this number is previously unknown in period so perhaps it was the test car, or maybe Jumper ran it when journalists and F1R were looking the other way.
It was being built up as an Atlantic for a quick FF driver [Parsons or Pearson?] when he got banned for running a breaking the seals on his engine before the scrutes got to it. [Richard Parsons rings bells here]
Bill Stone did a deal with Geoff and Geoff's dad paid 5 grand for it as a roller to replace his very bent TS10.

The car used in G8. Geoff can't remember who it came from [so we need to check the Calvert bit of the story] but it was rebuilt and sold to Roger Orgee as a roller.

With the information from Drifty on 732-12/73B-1 [or should that be U1?] I'll try and sort out a revised 732 list in the next couple of days

Chris

PS to Drifty - yes Aberfan was that mudslide on the school. 128 kids were killed, most of the children in the village.

[driftwood]

Chris/anyone
send me any questions u have for roger Orgee on march cars i have his email and tel no but Ive not spoken to him for a long while so i can interrogate him
see chevron b48 posting i had some musetti 742 info as well that will depress allen brown

i will eventually find that march tag but im sure its the coulon f2 732 tag that was converted to 73B1 its now fir sale in us of a again

[Chris Townsend]

Drifty

Having 732-12 converted into 73B-1 is a bit of a problem 'cause we know that Choularton's real 73B carried that plate [Adam F observed at Oulton in 1973] and it certainly wasn't that car. So do we have two 73B-1s?

March practice for that kind of late season conversion/build outside the production run would surely have been to put one of their funny lettered plates on it. U1 or R1 or T1 would make sense.

Questions for Orgee. After he bought it from Friswell did he re-tub it again, or just live with the 742 tub that Fris put in late 1976? Can he remember if the plate was still on it [ha ha] or even the tub numbers...
Who did he sell it to and when?

Chris

[driftwood]

Chris re 732-13 or 13 whatever coulon "works" assited stp car was is the car that Tony rebuilt to race as 1600 bda atlantic car in f2 colours he said it was converted at factory way back then! he had the file and got the fia papers on the car and then he sold it to usa
will ask roger the questions now

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

In case you have forgotten , the other period ''lurker '' we have is the car March lent to Harry Stiller/ Bev Bond late in 1973 , which after Harry advised was not my car that they ran in 1974 gives us another car that could have had any old plate / identification , and where , if anywhere did that go , or did it get pulled down and rebuilt as ?????????????

Bryan.

[driftwood]

List now needed to see where these cars are many of us are confused
as allen is on holiday maybe he is willing

[allenbrown]

I'm back but got caught in this morning's security alert at Heathrow. We landed 30 minutes early but then sat on the tarmac for ages. They even turned the entertainment back on. So I'm knackered and will therefore decline drifty's kind invitation.

[driftwood]

lightweight!
i mailed roger he is off to race will respond in detail next week also gave him the web links to see what we are waffling about
im sure u guys had another car ( march?) he owned that crossed the threads?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

im sure u guys had another car ( march?) he owned that crossed the threads?

Lyncar? He had one of the two 011 Lyncars and might be able to help us sort out its history.

[driftwood]

i will ask him do u have specifc questions or events to throw at him to make him think?
im talking to Silvio Mosers mechanic re lola 290 cars and he is struggling to recall facts from 1972 ish He gave me some info then a chat with his pal and he then finds he was mistaken so a specific event gets the grey matter working!!
have u seen the moser web silviomoser.com ? some guys have done jo siffert and stefan bellof sites do a google

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Alan Brown on Lyncar thread

Gurston Down May 1986 and Brighton Speed Trials Sept 1987
Ken Ayres Lyncar MS84 Cosworth 3993
Chassis number on each occasion recorded as LA78 011

PS I have a reference to Roger Orgee in a Lyncar 79A 011 with a 1975cc BDX in 1985.

I think the questions are:

1) Who had the Lyncar before him and roughly when did he buy it?
2) Who did the Lyncar go to and roughly when did he sell it?
3) What was the connection with Ken Ayres' sprint car - if any?

[driftwood]

questions sent he may come to thread direct i told him the link and it was LOOOONG so he may tell me directly!

[Bryan Miller]

Chris/Allen,

I don't if you have seen this ,

Autosport March 24th, 1977 , page 62 , for sale ,
March 742 rolling chassis , perfect condition , still lap record holder at Mugello with Flammini , 10 races from new , 16 wheels and spares , $ 4300.00 , tel. Solanda Fowsitt , Haddenham 290341.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

This would be the March 742 that Flammini drove for CSAI in 1974 and then for Trivellato in 1975. He won at Mugello in 1975 but didn't set fastest lap.

In 1977, after his career went pear-shaped, he was back in the same car for a few races but was off the pace. MN does confirm at one point that it's his 1975 Mugello-winning car. F1R say it was 742-22. So if he was racing 742-22 in mid-1977, the advert is a puzzle.

[Chris Townsend]

Would the lap record at Mugello perhaps have been set in testing?
allowing this to be a March development car.
I was aware of this ad. It only appears once, and a new 742 doesn't seem to immediately crop up anywhere in libre or on the hills.
The name is weird, like a pseudonym or even an acronym, though I haven't tried to work it out.

Chris

[allenbrown]

Testing would indeed make more sense Chris. The 'ten races from new' bit wouldn't really fit 742-22.

There are two Haddenhams, one between Thame and Aylesbury in Bucks and another one in Cambridgeshire. A check on the phone number shows this is the one in Bucks (nearly all village numbers start 29). If that helps at all...

[Dan Rear]

Wasn't Peter Bloore somewhere near there ?

[allenbrown]

Peter's always been in Wallingford as far as I can remember. That's about 20 miles away. But my recollection will only go back to the late 1970s so maybe.

Edit. From raceparts.co.uk: "Raceparts has been supplying parts world-wide for over 30 years from our Wallingford base".

[Alan Brown]

According to the catalogue the ex-Jimmy Mieusset (Maublanc Racing Services) 742-13 BDG was up for sale. Quoting from the catalogue the owners were Maublanc Racing 1974, Salomon (France) 1975-80, Goutarel (France) 1980-7, a Belgian for hill climbing 1987-93, Pierette (Belgium) 1993-7, Bonjean (Belgium) 1997-8, Simon Hadfield 1998-9, Tony Hansford 1999 and the vendor from 1999. J Timoney was the name on the side. It appears to have sold for £34,500.

Alan Brown